The Constitution takes another hit

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit#post_3431152
The "specialties" I'm referring to are the one's MD's consider the "big bucks specialties". Neurosurgeon, Cardio Thorasics, Plastic Surgery, Oncologist to name a few.
The majority of Americans are willing to workhard for what they want. The Republicans and Conservatives try to paint this picture that there's millions of people sitting around waiting for government handouts. The fact is, what jobs are out there are either low-paying, no advancement positions where you can't even earn enough to pay for your necessities, or one's that you need specialized training to obtain. Our current society has always stressed that in order to obtain employment that pays resonable wages, you have to obtain secondary education of some form, whether it be a trade school, vocational school, and college degree. That costs exhorbitant amounts of money. It's ridiculous what these institutions charge for that education, and requires individuals to be in debt for decades after they attain whatever degree they decide to persue. I wonder how far you'd get today with persuing your medical degree with the inflated costs of the education required to obtain that position. You talk like you do because you've already attained that success. Put yourself in someone's position today and see if you could say the same thing.
First off there are millions looking for handouts of some form. Ever see those commercials with that Matthew Lesko guy hyping free government grants? They wouldn't be running those lame commercials if there wasn't a demand.
A lot of those jobs that a high school graduate would get went overseas when we killed our manufacturing base.. If the government would enforce the laws against illegal immigrants we could open up a few million jobs "the folks" would be happy to have.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3431157
First off there are millions looking for handouts of some form. Ever see those commercials with that Matthew Lesko guy hyping free government grants? They wouldn't be running those lame commercials if there wasn't a demand.
A lot of those jobs that a high school graduate would get went overseas when we killed our manufacturing base.. If the government would enforce the laws against illegal immigrants we could open up a few million jobs "the folks" would be happy to have.
Define "hand outs". I've looked at those "free government grants" when my daughter first started looking at out-of-state colleges. It's just a come-on to get you to buy into some lame seminar that will "show you" where there's all the "free government money" out there that you could potentially obtain. Problem is, they never exist. There are available grants and government loans for students, but those have to be paid back.
Alabama passed their little law that targeted illegal immmigrant workers in that state, and look how that turned out. Farmers are saying they're leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of produce on the vine, because they can't find enough "legal workers" to perform the back-breaking work that's required for the amount of money they can afford to pay. The one's that do come to work, do a half-baked job, want extended breaks, want to leave early, then after a couple of days of working, they say "Sorry, this isn't worth what you're paying me." and they simply walk away.
Large corporations moved their manufacturing facilities to foreign markets mainly due to labor costs. If you owned a company that made 'widgets', and had your plant in the US, you'd have to pay a minimum of $7.25/hr just to start, almost doubling that to get experienced help or supervisors. At the same time, you could put that plant in Mexico, get a manufacturing facility for half the cost you'd pay for a facility in the US, then pay the same line workers $8/DAY to make the same widget. You have Customs duties and transportation fees to pay, but even with those, you come out ahead. Even if the Feds jacked up the import taxes, the corporations would still pay them simply to avoid dealing with arrogant and demanding American employees. All they'd do is add the extra taxation to the cost of the finished good, which the seller would in turn jack up the cost of the finished good when it comes to selling it.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3431213
Define "hand outs". I've looked at those "free government grants" when my daughter first started looking at out-of-state colleges. It's just a come-on to get you to buy into some lame seminar that will "show you" where there's all the "free government money" out there that you could potentially obtain. Problem is, they never exist. There are available grants and government loans for students, but those have to be paid back.
Alabama passed their little law that targeted illegal immmigrant workers in that state, and look how that turned out. Farmers are saying they're leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of produce on the vine, because they can't find enough "legal workers" to perform the back-breaking work that's required for the amount of money they can afford to pay. The one's that do come to work, do a half-baked job, want extended breaks, want to leave early, then after a couple of days of working, they say "Sorry, this isn't worth what you're paying me." and they simply walk away.
Large corporations moved their manufacturing facilities to foreign markets mainly due to labor costs. If you owned a company that made 'widgets', and had your plant in the US, you'd have to pay a minimum of $7.25/hr just to start, almost doubling that to get experienced help or supervisors. At the same time, you could put that plant in Mexico, get a manufacturing facility for half the cost you'd pay for a facility in the US, then pay the same line workers $8/DAY to make the same widget. You have Customs duties and transportation fees to pay, but even with those, you come out ahead. Even if the Feds jacked up the import taxes, the corporations would still pay them simply to avoid dealing with arrogant and demanding American employees. All they'd do is add the extra taxation to the cost of the finished good, which the seller would in turn jack up the cost of the finished good when it comes to selling it.
I ain't saying the guy is on the up and up. I am saying they spend a LOT of money on advertising that touts FREE government money. There's got to be a huge market for it, hence a whole lotta people looking for a handout.
The Bama farmers got caught with their pants down because they were hiring illegals instead of going through the proper FDA migrant worker program that is more than able to provide enough workers. There's plenty of illegals working in the food packing industry, construction, landscape etc. where plenty of Americans are willing to work.
It's the cost of business that drove out the manufacturing base and that's more than just wages. Taxes, regulations, electricity costs etc. have just as big an impact.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3431220
I ain't saying the guy is on the up and up. I am saying they spend a LOT of money on advertising that touts FREE government money. There's got to be a huge market for it, hence a whole lotta people looking for a handout.
The Bama farmers got caught with their pants down because they were hiring illegals instead of going through the proper FDA migrant worker program that is more than able to provide enough workers. There's plenty of illegals working in the food packing industry, construction, landscape etc. where plenty of Americans are willing to work.
It's the cost of business that drove out the manufacturing base and that's more than just wages. Taxes, regulations, electricity costs etc. have just as big an impact.
Ergo, my example with Mexico. I've been working for several US companies over the last year that moved their manufacturing operations to many of the Mexico border towns along the Texas border. The facilities are clean, up to date, and easily accessible from the Texas side of the border. I can drive to any of their facilities within 20 minutes of crossing. Almost every one of these operations has a Distribution Center on the US side that handles the import/export of their materials and finished goods. All the workers are dilligent, very precise, and have relatively few material defects. Most are behind huge walls with plenty of security. Compared to their US manufacturing plants they had before moving them to Mexico, I can honestly say the Mexico facilities are in better shape. Cost wise, I know one customer whose told me that their operations costs and facilities costs in Mexico are one third what they were paying for the same square footage in Michigan.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Awww come on guys (and gals)
the US industrial base is not shut down.
for instance toyota has 10 plants in the US.
In alabama we have toyota engines made here at huntsville.
Mercedes Benz made in tuscalosa
hondas in anniston
hyundae in montgomery.
a new VW plant is being setup in Chattanooga tn.
Etc etc etc.
these plants have all located to the US because the same quality can be produced cheaper in the US.
IMHO anyone who thinks the US manufacturing is completely shut down is badly mistaken.
my .02
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3431278
Awww come on guy (and gals)
the US industrial base is not shut down.
for instance toyota has 10 plants in the US.
In alabama we have toyota engines made here at huntsville.
Mercedes Benz made in tuscalosa
hondas in anniston
hyundae in montgomery.
a new VW plant is being setup in Chattanooga tn.
Etc etc etc.
these plants have all located to the US because the same quality can be produced cheaper in the US.
IMHO anyone who thinks the US manufacturing is completely shut down is badly mistaken.
my .02
Never said it was shut down, just significantly reduced. Foreign automakers are doing the same thing the US is doing, placing their manufacturing facilities where it's cheaper to produce them. The cost to run a Toyota plant in Japan is probably more than twice what it costs to build them here. Also, since Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai are in the Top 5 best selling cars in the US, it's a no brainer to build them here to reduce shipping and import costs. But just saying we have a bunch of auto plants in the US doesn't necessarily mean the US manfacturing industry is thriving.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Go try to buy a screw that isn't made in china. Small electronics, tools, hell we even import beef. Whirlpool and Maytag even moved out. It aint that we don't make anything but its a fraction of what we did 30 years ago.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Again
so?
after WWII much of the industrial base of the world was destroyed except in the US.
So we build plenty of things.
now with the industrial base all over the world a lot of what we used to build then is now built elsewhere.
Again So?
the shouldn't nor should we expect to build all the worlds" screws (or bolts or computers or cars or whatever).
Yet we are still the largest economy in the world and still have good employment.
But then you don't hear about all the steel mills, car plants, and so on build in the US.
Just that screws are build in china.
Again
So?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
So what? Seriously?
The loss of manufacturing jobs has been huge. In the steel industry alone US Steel has gone from a high of 350,000 employees in the 50's to 52,000 in 2000. That was just one company.
You may not think we need to be the worlds screw maker but shouldn't we at least be the US screw maker? My mom started out as a divorced mother with no related job experience at a company called Cherry Rivet which make aircraft fasteners for the most part. She started in 1975 as a sorter for like 15 cents above minimum wage at the time. She was able to work her way up to the point where she retired in 94 making better than 22 bux an hour as an inspector. Her boss literally started out sweeping the floors at the place. Don't know what he was making but it was a lot more than 22 an hour.
There aren't that many jobs other than manufacturing when a kid out of high school or someone with no specific education or experience can get a job with any real chance for a future. And on top of that they also require high skilled positions as well.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3433616
So what? Seriously?
The loss of manufacturing jobs has been huge. In the steel industry alone US Steel has gone from a high of 350,000 employees in the 50's to 52,000 in 2000. That was just one company.
You may not think we need to be the worlds screw maker but shouldn't we at least be the US screw maker? My mom started out as a divorced mother with no related job experience at a company called Cherry Rivet which make aircraft fasteners for the most part. She started in 1975 as a sorter for like 15 cents above minimum wage at the time. She was able to work her way up to the point where she retired in 94 making better than 22 bux an hour as an inspector. Her boss literally started out sweeping the floors at the place. Don't know what he was making but it was a lot more than 22 an hour.
There aren't that many jobs other than manufacturing when a kid out of high school or someone with no specific education or experience can get a job with any real chance for a future. And on top of that they also require high skilled positions as well.
Agan BS pure and simple.
NUCOR
We always hear about the "us" companies that have lost jobs. But never hear of the factories that have expanded here. To use your example, NUCOR steel has many employees.
Just heard the new GM chevy is 1/2 its sales and 2/3 of those sales are overseas.
There are plenty of jobs where one starts at some entry level and works their way up.
the only reason chinese good are so cheap is the exchange rate. As more and more chinese goods are sold here the price of chinese good will increase in the US and the price of US goods in china will decrease because the exchange rate. With no changes to labor rates in either country.
the worse thing we can do is just sit around and complain about how this or that old company used to do this or that.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Our manufacturing is definitely smaller now than it was up til the 60's. http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/bus/A0846599.html 2.5 million employed in steel production in 1974 and less than a million in 1998 and I bet it has gotten worse since. When I drove a big truck I used to load up in Sharon, Pa at US Steel and there were 15000 people employed at the main plant there. I loaded up there in 2002 for the first time in about 10 years and there were 30 people fabricating Chinese steel. We have been decimated in durable industrial output. Take out software and IT, which is considered manufacturing now,what a joke-and we are almost purely a service economy. Britain lost their industrial base in the 70's and have never recovered, for the most part. Slap any makeup on it, it's still just as ugly. We are waning in strength due to the loss of industrial power.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
John Stossel, who is extremely open trade, had a special a few years back that showed how we can't make tanks, ships, even uniforms if we had to make it all ourselves-like WWII. I find it puzzling an American has no concern that we can't be a self-sufficient and sovereign nation anymore due to foreign outsourcing.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/388715/the-constitution-takes-another-hit/20#post_3433806
Agan BS pure and simple.
NUCOR
We always hear about the "us" companies that have lost jobs. But never hear of the factories that have expanded here. To use your example, NUCOR steel has many employees.
Just heard the new GM chevy is 1/2 its sales and 2/3 of those sales are overseas.
There are plenty of jobs where one starts at some entry level and works their way up.
the only reason chinese good are so cheap is the exchange rate. As more and more chinese goods are sold here the price of chinese good will increase in the US and the price of US goods in china will decrease because the exchange rate. With no changes to labor rates in either country.
the worse thing we can do is just sit around and complain about how this or that old company used to do this or that.
I love Nucor, made a bundle trading their stock. So what? They empoy about 11,000 people. US steel is still the largest steel manufacturer in the US.
Maytag and Whirlpool both left. GE just pulled their X ray manufacturing out. What moved in to take their place? It isn't a matter of losing a particular company. It's that we lose the manufacturing base. You know, source the raw materials, refine them, use that end product to build something, then sell it. We lose jobs at every step.
And I hate to burst your bubble but those chevys being sold overseas, BUILT OVERSEAS. I am not sure they export any US built cars outside north America.
 
morgan175

morgan175

Member
Ok I got it the real problem starts with walmart. Hate that place. Where i live now the people who need "assistance' are getting free phones with 250 minutes in case of a job calls. The manufacturing jobs that were here 10 years ago are gone. The printing business which was huge is slowly being phased out. The problem I see with america is we are lazy and always take the easy way out. People want to talk and not do. For example my wife would go to mcdonalds every night instead of learning to cook and saving a penny by eating at home. my two cents.
 
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