The idol of Obama

[stdreb27]

This is a really interesting opinion editorial.
This is my favorite quote. And what is really interesting it is in a british news paper. And we all know what libs the brits can be.
"Obama everything is in place for the media to indulge in one of the greatest, orgiastic media fiestas of hero-worship since Elvis Presley."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle3941450.ece

 

[1journeyman]

President Bush, speaking in Israel this week, gave a great speech that in my view really drew some solid distinctions between Obama and the Republican view of foreign policy:
"...We believe that targeting innocent lives to achieve political objectives is always and everywhere wrong. So we stand together against terror and extremism, and we will never let down our guard or lose our resolve.The fight against terror and extremism is the defining challenge of our time. It is more than a clash of arms. It is a clash of visions, a great ideological struggle. On the one side are those who defend the ideals of justice and dignity with the power of reason and truth. On the other side are those who pursue a narrow vision of cruelty and control by committing murder, inciting fear, and spreading lies. This struggle is waged with the technology of the 21st century, but at its core it is an ancient battle between good and evil.... And that is why the founding charter of Hamas calls for the "elimination" of Israel. And that is why the followers of Hezbollah chant "Death to Israel, Death to America!" That is why Osama bin Laden teaches that "the killing of Jews and Americans is one of the biggest duties." And that is why the president of Iran dreams of returning the Middle East to the Middle Ages and calls for Israel to be wiped off the map. There are good and decent people who cannot fathom the darkness in these men and try to explain away their words. It's natural, but it is deadly wrong. As witnesses to evil in the past, we carry a solemn responsibility to take these words seriously. Jews and Americans have seen the consequences of disregarding the words of leaders who espouse hatred. And that is a mistake the world must not repeat in the 21st century. Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: "Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided." We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history. Some people suggest if the United States would just break ties with Israel, all our problems in the Middle East would go away. This is a tired argument that buys into the propaganda of the enemies of peace, and America utterly rejects it..."
Compare that speech to Obama calling our relationship with Israel a "constant sore" and it's not difficult to see why Hamas endorses one candidate over another.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2610721
Predient Bush, speaking in Israel this week, gave a great speech that in my view really drew some solid distinctions between Obama and the Republican view of foreign policy:
"...We believe that targeting innocent lives to achieve political objectives is always and everywhere wrong. So we stand together against terror and extremism, and we will never let down our guard or lose our resolve.The fight against terror and extremism is the defining challenge of our time. It is more than a clash of arms. It is a clash of visions, a great ideological struggle. On the one side are those who defend the ideals of justice and dignity with the power of reason and truth. On the other side are those who pursue a narrow vision of cruelty and control by committing murder, inciting fear, and spreading lies. This struggle is waged with the technology of the 21st century, but at its core it is an ancient battle between good and evil.... And that is why the founding charter of Hamas calls for the "elimination" of Israel. And that is why the followers of Hezbollah chant "Death to Israel, Death to America!" That is why Osama bin Laden teaches that "the killing of Jews and Americans is one of the biggest duties." And that is why the president of Iran dreams of returning the Middle East to the Middle Ages and calls for Israel to be wiped off the map. There are good and decent people who cannot fathom the darkness in these men and try to explain away their words. It's natural, but it is deadly wrong. As witnesses to evil in the past, we carry a solemn responsibility to take these words seriously. Jews and Americans have seen the consequences of disregarding the words of leaders who espouse hatred. And that is a mistake the world must not repeat in the 21st century. Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: "Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided." We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history. Some people suggest if the United States would just break ties with Israel, all our problems in the Middle East would go away. This is a tired argument that buys into the propaganda of the enemies of peace, and America utterly rejects it..."
Compare that speech to Obama calling our relationship with Israel a "constant sore" and it's not difficult to see why Hamas endorses one candidate over another.

What is really funny, in attacking president bush for the illedged attack, he is doing what he is whining about Bush doing.

 

[jmick]

I find it interesting in the speech that he'd compare democrats to nazi appeasers especially at the 60th anniversary celebration of the creation of the State of Israel . Also, does anyone understand that difference between negotiating and appeasement?
This is not the end of the fear and smear campaign, which is unfortunitly the only way they are going to win this election.
Finally, I recommend some of you do some research on Prescott Bush (GW's Grampy). Apparently, even after America had entered the WWII and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2610901
I find it interesting in the speech that he'd compare democrats to nazi appeasers especially at the 60th anniversary celebration of the creation of the State of Israel . Also, does anyone understand that difference between negotiating and appeasement?
This is not the end of the fear and smear campaign, which is unfortunitly the only way they are going to win this election.
Finally, I recommend some of you do some research on Prescott Bush (GW's Grampy). Apparently, even after America had entered the WWII and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.
He has a valid point. And what does GW's grampy have to do with anything? My great grandpa was an early chinese communist, and that has nothing to do with anything either.
BTW what do you think we, the UN, the EU and russia have been doing with these communist jokers. The president has no business sitting down with these morons and negotiating, that needs to already be done.

 

[suzy]

What is funky is what McSame is saying, or shall I say what he WAS saying, before his latest flip flop:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051503306.html
It is interesting that Bush would go to a foreign country and air our dirty politics. UNITED States of America means something else to him....

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2610906
He has a valid point. And what does GW's grampy have to do with anything? My great grandpa was an early chinese communist, and that has nothing to do with anything either.
BTW what do you think we, the UN, the EU and russia have been doing with these communist jokers. The president has no business sitting down with these morons and negotiating, that needs to already be done.
I just thought it was an interesting bit of info and something that most people don't know about his family and the origin of their wealth.
Do you think it was an appropriate setting to talk about Hitler and appeasement and to push his own agenda, especially given the history of his family and the event he was at?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2610925
I just thought it was an interesting bit of info and something that most people don't know about his family and the origin of their wealth.
Do you think it was an appropriate setting to talk about Hitler and appeasement and to push his own agenda, especially given the history of his family and the event he was at?
Or maybe he made the comment in support of Israels foreign policy which reflects that position.
btw, it isn't as if former presidents (carter and clinton) and former vice presidents (al Gore) haven't actually attacked a sitting president during war time in a foreign country. Please.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2610906
He has a valid point. And what does GW's grampy have to do with anything? My great grandpa was an early chinese communist, and that has nothing to do with anything either.
BTW what do you think we, the UN, the EU and russia have been doing with these communist jokers. The president has no business sitting down with these morons and negotiating, that needs to already be done.
So let me get this right... you give Bush a pass on his grandfather, who profited from Nazi Germany, (this is probably where they got a large amount of their wealth from) yet you jump on Obama about his comments on a person who was a "father figure", or his dad being muslim, or Ayers...
You also ignore comments made in 2006 by McCain about Hamas...and we needing to engage them...
Also, the past and current Sec of Defense has said we needed to have talks with Hamas.. people such as C. Rice and C Powell.
Its just very funny to see how hypocritical everyone is as well as Bush and McCain... This has been a bad week for them because Bush disgraced his office with his comments... and McCain followed them up.... with his "Vision of the Future" which is atleast a 10 year war in Iraq...
This is a joke and republicans should be calling out these two, because this is, as Biden said, Malarcky! They certainly didn't do your bid for the presidency any good with their comments.
* Oh and what about Bush saying he'd give up golf while we are at war to honor troops... and now tape is out proving him to be a liar...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2610937
Or maybe he made the comment in support of Israels foreign policy which reflects that position.
btw, it isn't as if former presidents (carter and clinton) and former vice presidents (al Gore) haven't actually attacked a sitting president during war time in a foreign country. Please.
No he's just an idiot.. he broke foreign policy first of all... and we are not that stupid to not know his family background during WWII.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2611061
and we are not that stupid to not know his family background during WWII.
lol, his "family background during WWII" was that his grandfather had ONE SHARE in a company owned by a man who left the Nazi party BEFORE THEY INVADED POLAND and was later imprisoned by the Nazis. yeah, pappy Bush must've been real tight with Hitler.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2611057
Its just very funny to see how hypocritical everyone is as well as Bush and McCain...
first, Obama said he would have unconditional talks with any leader in the world. now, he says he'll only meet them with pre-conditions met. we need to know which Obama you support to determine whether or not you're a hypocrite too. because what he's saying right now is exactly in line with what Bush has been saying all along.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2610901
I find it interesting in the speech that he'd compare democrats to nazi appeasers especially at the 60th anniversary celebration of the creation of the State of Israel . Also, does anyone understand that difference between negotiating and appeasement?
first, the word "democrat" isn't mentioned anywhere in that speech.
secondly, what happened with Hitler pre-WWII was appeasement. and what happened with Saddam pre-Iraq war was appeasement. and what is happening with Hamas has been appeasement. so he got that much right. though I generally agree that Bush is an idiot, hit this speech out of the ballpark.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2611264
lol, his "family background during WWII" was that his grandfather had ONE SHARE in a company owned by a man who left the Nazi party BEFORE THEY INVADED POLAND and was later imprisoned by the Nazis. yeah, pappy Bush must've been real tight with Hitler.

One share, you 100% sure about that? I suggest you do a little digging and research it a little more. I can't imagine his company's assets would be seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act for owning one share in a company owned by a man who left the Nazi party

No one said he was tight with Hitler or even sympathized. What has been said is that they made money off the Nazi's rise to power and still did business once the motives of the Germans became clear. Further more, there is some evidence that they may have profited off slave labor from concentration camps.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2611283
One share, you 100% sure about that? I suggest you do a little digging and research it a little more. I can't imagine his company's assets would be seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act for owning one share in a company owned by a man who left the Nazi party

No one said he was tight with Hitler or even sympathized. What has been said is that they made money off the Nazi's rise to power and still did business once the motives of the Germans became clear. Further more, there is some evidence that they may have profited off slave labor from concentration camps.
Bush didn't own the company, so it wasn't HIS company. after the war started, the Nazis seized the company and neither former Nazi, Bush, nor anyone else had any control over the company or what was done with it. seriously, it's reaching for straws to try to connect W to the Nazis. it's just dumb.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2610901
I find it interesting in the speech that he'd compare democrats to nazi appeasers especially at the 60th anniversary celebration of the creation of the State of Israel . Also, does anyone understand that difference between negotiating and appeasement?
This is not the end of the fear and smear campaign, which is unfortunitly the only way they are going to win this election.
Finally, I recommend some of you do some research on Prescott Bush (GW's Grampy). Apparently, even after America had entered the WWII and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

I recomend you do a little factual research about Prescott Bush before making innacurate statements about him. http://www.answers.com/topic/prescott-bush
Besides even if all that were true what does that have to do with W? My Grandfather was an elder in the LDS Church. Does that make me a Mormon?
There is no better place to talk about Nazi appeasement than Israel.
And perhaps you can point out where in the speech Bush uttered the words Obama or Democrat. It was the Democrats and Obama who inserted themselves into the dialogue.
As far as McCain's part in this he correctly stated we were going to have to deal with Hamas in one way or another after their "political wing" won control of the Palestenian government. Fact is that doesn't mean negotiate with them as Obama plans to do. That is a violation of official US policy which is we do not negotiate with terrorist groups. It just goes to show how truely unqualified Obama is,

 

[reefraff]

It's really amazing the amount of false information regurgitated by Obamites. I guess if these people researched information for themselves using credible sources they wouldn't be Obama supporters in the first place.

 

[jmick]

Did you even read the link you provided? This is a direct quote from it:
The New York Herald-Tribune referred to Thyssen as "Hitler's Angel" and mentioned Bush as an employee of the investment banking firm Thyssen used in the United States. Some records in the National Archives, including the Harriman papers, document the continued relationship of Brown Brothers Harriman with Thyssen and some of his German investments up until his 1951 death.[7] Investigator John Loftus has said, "As a former federal prosecutor, I would make a case for Prescott Bush, his father-in-law (George Walker) and Averell Harriman [to be prosecuted] for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. They remained on the boards of these companies knowing that they were of financial benefit to the nation of Germany." Two former slave laborers from Poland have filed suit in London against the government of the United States and the heirs of Prescott Bush in the amount of $40 billion. A class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. in 2001 was dismissed based on the principle of state sovereignty.[8]

 

[jmick]

Besides even if all that were true what does that have to do with W? My Grandfather was an elder in the LDS Church. Does that make me a Mormon?

So what you are saying is, even if you have a long standing association with someone that doesn't mean you share the same beliefs? So then why do you guys hammer on the Obama and Rev Wright association or even his association with Ayers? Seriously, you guys make me laugh sometimes.
Wait, if we don't negotiate with terrorist groups then how did our government help broker peace in Northern Ireland? So, when Clinton did this and accomplished a major feat this was a sign that he was also unqualified because he used talks and negotiating?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2611307
Did you even read the link you provided? This is a direct quote from it:
.[8]
Maybe you shouldn't ignore the rest of the article that provides the facts. These are all direct quotes with emphasis added.
"In 1931, Bush became a founding partner of Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. that was created through the 1931 merger of Brown Brothers & Co., a merchant bank founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1818 with Harriman Brothers & Co., established in New York City in 1927, and A. Harriman & Co."
As you can see Bush became involved before the Nazi's even gained control of Germany (1933), let alone before anyone knew exactly how bad they really were
"Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for several German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen had been an early financial banker of the Nazi party until 1938, but by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. He was later jailed by the Nazis for his opposition to the regime. Business transactions with Germany were not illegal when Hitler declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act after it had been made public that U.S. companies were doing business with the declared enemy of the United States. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of German banking operations in New York City. Roosevelt's Alien Property Custodian, Leo T. Crowley, signed Vesting Order Number 248 seizing Bush's property under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The order cited only the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), of which Bush was a director and held one share, which had connections with a Dutch bank owned by Thyssen. Fox News has reported that recently declassified material reveals that the 4,000 Union Banking shares owned by the Dutch bank were registered in the names of the seven U.S. directors, according a document signed by Homer Jones, chief of the division of investigation and research of the Office of Alien Property Custodian, a World War II-era agency. [6]. By 1941 Thyssen no longer had control over his banking empire, which was in the hands of the Nazi government.
E. Roland Harriman--3991 shares (managed and under voting control of Prescott Bush)
Cornelis Lievense--4 shares (He was the New York banker of the Nazi Party)
Harold D. Pennington--1 share (Employed by Prescott Bush at Brown Brothers Harriman)
Ray Morris--1 share (a business partner of the Bush and Harriman families)
Prescott S. Bush--1 share (director of UBC, which was co-founded and sponsored by his father-in-law George Walker; senior managing partner for E. Roland Harriman and Averell Harriman)
H.J. Kouwenhoven--1 share (organized UBC for Von Thyssen, managed UBC in Nazi occupied Netherlands)
Johann G. Groeninger--1 share (German Industrial Executive, a not unimportant member of the Nazi party)
The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:
Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman). The President of UBC at that time was George Herbert Walker, Bush's father-in-law.
Dutch-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)
the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by a German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, the American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.)
The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951. Bush was on the board of directors of UBC and held one share in the company. For it, he was reimbursed $1,500,000. These assets were later used to launch Bush family investments in the Texas energy industry.
Toby Rogers has claimed that Bush's connections to Silesian businesses (with Thyssen and Flick) make him complicit with the mining operations in Poland which used slave labor out of Oświęcim, where the Auschwitz concentration camp was later constructed.