The QT debate

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Jon321
I think it can also depend on what fish you have. Something like a mandarin, anthias, idol, and other delicate feeders I would never qt. Jon

Not cool. I had bought a mandarin and thought that since they were pretty much immune, I didn't need to QT. Well, HE was immune, but he brought some unidentifiable parasite in with him, and as a result, every other fish in my tank had to be caught, QT'ed and medicated. Nobody ever could tell me what the parasites were. They were bigger than ick, opaque and stuck to the fishes body randomly. Copper killed them, but I will never add another fish without QTing again!!
That ordeal was not worth passing up QTing. But for a mandarin, I would swith out LR pieces from your display. You are not medicating a QT. If you are then it becomes a hospital tank and for a mandarin, I do not think it would really ever need a hospital tank. But you know, wierder things have happened.

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
That is why I use a 55 for a QT and I recommend nothing smaller unless your tank is smaller.

Can you post a picture of your QT?

 

[ophiura]

I think if you do not QT, you can never say that your tank will be free if something like ick. You may not experience it because you may not trigger stresses that can result in it (water quality, overcrowding, poor diet), but it is not the same as saying it is not there.
If you do QT, but do not do a full course of hypo - same as above.
If you QT all fish with a full course of hypo, then you can reasonably, IMO, conclude that you are far less likely to have an outbreak of ick even if conditions in the tank deteriorate - but other diseases may set in.
I agree that most fish at an LFS in no way are acclimated to captivity, and would say to never buy a fish within 3-4 days of it arriving at the store (most mortality is 48-72 hours after arrival). Never buy a fish that is not eating. I do see the benefit in certain cases in isolating a fish to ensure it is not going to be bullied.
As for QT, personally, I have not done it on my tank. I have in other situations. I have had an outbreak of ick that involved two fish (both in captivity 1+ years). That outbreak passed when the stressor (namely the other fish) was removed. But otherwise I would have said both of those fish were extremely healthy, well adapted specimens. Still didn't prevent the outbreak. Several parasites and diseases are kept at background levels by the immune system of a healthy fish (or person). Most humans look healthy, but could be dead from a disease within minutes (eg heart attack).
Just chosing a healthy fish does not mean that you can prevent a disease. Unless you take significant proactive measures (hypo and copper), you can't guarantee much at all. QT is a personal choice, IMO, but there are definite advantages to it.

 

[beth]

If anyone doubts the effectiveness of the QT or even the necessity, please spend a week with me over in the disease forum. That will convince you.

 

[unleashed]

i do fully agree with you beth.when we avoid doing what we know we should be doing to start with we have no one to blame but ourselves when it doesnt go the way we had hoped.but I am releived when it does.

 

[rhomer]

From all my reading and understanding any tank that can support inverts has ich floating around. Your fish aren't showing signs of getting sick because they aren't stressed or are in good health. If you have a break out of ich it shows signs of other problems in the tank.
This is like the same concept as when you are at work around a whole lot of people who are sick and you don't get it. Why is that? You were exposed to the bacteria or virus but you didn't get sick. I think it is similar in a tank enviroment.
Rob

 

[rhomer]

Originally Posted by Beth
If anyone doubts the effectiveness of the QT or even the necessity, please spend a week with me over in the disease forum. That will convince you.
I don't doubt that a QT tank is fantastic, but I don't think that you should QT your fish for 4 weeks prior to introduction to your main tank. This causes enourmous and additional stress on the fish. I think that you are more inclined to damage the fish due to 2 acclimation processes instead of one. Since 2002 I've yet to have a serious bout of ich. I've had my hippo show one or 2 spots, but each time they have gone away in a day if not a few hours.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rhomer
This causes enourmous and additional stress on the fish.... .
Not if you do your QT tank properly.
Black out 3 sides and bottom and use water from your display for your QT. Also, feed your QT what you feed your display. That cuts down on fish stress, allows them to get used to captivity, gets them used to feeding, and allows you to treat for diseases and parasites.

 

[darth tang]

Originally Posted by Beth
Can you post a picture of your QT?
Sure Beth...I will take a picture tonight. It is a standard 55 with 2 powerheads and some PVC and tubing in the bottom.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Sure Beth...I will take a picture tonight. It is a standard 55 with 2 powerheads and some PVC and tubing in the bottom.
I'd be willing to bet that Darth's QT is the exception rather than the norm. I think that most people with QT's probably use 20 or 30 gallon tanks. These QT's would only serve the purpose of reducing stress for blennies, basslets, cardinals and other small fish. Would cause more harm than good for any larger fish.

 

[rhomer]

I just don't understand how you can keep you QT tank the same parameters as your display tank and keep it cycled without having fishi in it at all times.
Here is where I have a serious problem with QT tanks. I setup a new 30 gallon tank with the appropriate filtration, let's say a wet dry. The tank has no rock and no sand, basically nothing to buffer. So you cycle the tank with some meaty dead thing, and the tank cycles. You place your first fish in there immediatly after the cycle. I promise you the tank will do another mini-cycle because the fish prodcues far more waste and will need far more bacteria to support it then was formed during the original cycle. But for the sake of argument let's say all goes well and the tank didn't mini cycle. I'm a responsible aquariust and don't add another fish for a month. Over the course of the month I have done water changes and dosed my main display tank while the QT tank has sat idle. There has been no life in it for a month. Nothing to feed the aerobic bacteria, so that bacteria has died off, and I'm left with a uncycled mini version of my display tank. The second I add a fish to the QT tank it will need to recycle, and wham dead fish everywhere.
Can someone explain to me why the above doesn't happen?
Rob

 

[1journeyman]

Yup... Here's my explanation:
Two ways to avoid another cycle killing your QT.
1. I "feed" my QT tank. Put a bit of fish food in it every couple of days.
2. While I have fish in the QT I do more frequent water changes in my display and use the "old" water from the display as "new" water for my QT.
The combination provides for an ammonia free QT.