The War on Education

[pezenfuego]

I was thinking about our education system today and wanted to know your opinions on the subject. Then I remembered a short essay I wrote about this a few years back. I found it.
The War on Education
“Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics (Leighann Lord).” The point that this quote makes is that our current system of education is simply not working. It is our responsibility as a nation to improve it. I believe that the first step in improving the quality of an American education is to lengthen the amount of time students spend in school. I also believe that the length of a school day is adequate. It is the length and schedule of the school year that needs improvement. A good start to improving the American education system would be to add an extra twenty days to the school year. Rather than the school year being based on a one-hundred-eighty day schedule, we should base it on a two-hundred day schedule.
Our school schedule is outdated. Many years ago students were not able to go to school during the summers because their help was needed at their family farm. This is the reason why our school year is so short. I think that it is strange that the schedule that most American schools follow is based on the idea that students are needed to help with farm work. While this schedule may still be helpful for some rural families, we should not keep it. Our schedule should be based on the needs of the majority of students, rather than the rural minority. Most students, specifically the younger crowd, do not spend their summers doing anything productive. At least some of this summer relaxation time could be put to better use in school. We have been using this outdated schedule for far too long, and it is time for a change.
I have made it abundantly clear that I think that students should spend more time in school, but I do not think that lengthening the school day is a good way to do this. The thought of making school ten to fifteen minutes longer is not likely to have any legitimate effect on education or one’s life, but making it an hour longer certainly would. School is not the only source that a child should rely on for education. Education via time spent with family and friends, at a job after school, and time spent in afterschool activities are all necessary sources of education. It would be selfish and unnecessary for school to occupy an entire day. School already utilizes time beyond the realm of a school day. With homework, projects, and speech preparation, a large portion of a student’s free time is spent working toward the goal of education. In short, the notion of making school longer would limit homework time, social time, time for teens to earn money, and time that could be spent being physically active. The average American work day is roughly eight hours. This is about the same as the length of time American teens spend in school each day. If we were to keep teens in school longer, we would theoretically be working them harder than their parents.

 

[pezenfuego]

Lengthening the school day is not a good idea, but I believe that lengthening the school year would be a grand idea. For starters, summer vacation is the time in a child’s life when they get into the most trouble. “He who opens a school door closes a prison (Victor Hugo).” This quote illustrates how school, aside from educating children, keeps children out of trouble. With longer school years, we will have fewer instances of youth-related crimes. Aside from keeping kids in line morally, a school’s main focus is to provide students with the best education possible and teach students things that they can implement later in life.
A longer school year would allow teachers to cover more material. Rarely have any of my classes finished a textbook. Poor education has nothing to do with teachers doing their jobs poorly, but the issue of teachers doing their jobs incompletely. Obviously, we cannot shift the blame for our poor rankings to the teachers. Our poor test grades and world rankings are the fault of the American education system. With a longer school year, teachers have more breathing room and can spend more time on difficult subjects so that the students will have an easier time understanding them. If teachers succeed in completing the year’s lesson plan, they will be able to give us educational projects that are also fun. The classes that would benefit from a longer school year the most are foreign language classes. Few students graduate high school with the ability to speak a foreign language fluently.
Another reason that lengthening the school year would be beneficial has to do with the idea of retention. Upon returning to school after summer vacation, most students find that they have forgotten a large portion of what they learned the previous year. With a shorter break between one school year to the next, we will be able to retain information better. During the first few weeks of school, students need to review. If we shorten summer vacation, we will also be able to shorten the amount of time spent “catching up;” and we will be able to utilize that extra time learning new things.
There are multiple options for changing the school year in order to make it longer. The first option, as I have already pointed out, is to make summer vacation twenty days shorter. This idea is good because it is neither a very drastic change, nor does it interfere with the ideals of most people’s schedules. The other idea for making the school year longer is to “break up” summer vacation into a multitude of shorter breaks that would be scattered throughout the school year. This would make school a year-round activity, but it would still be based on the concept of a two-hundred day schedule. Even though the first option would help with retention, this second option would almost eliminate the need for review from year to year. I personally think that the second option would be better, but I do not think that we should utilize it just yet. Going from our current schedule to year-round schooling would be a very large step. We should start with shortening summer vacation and if, in the future, we decide to do year-round school, it would not be a very big transition. With both of these ideas, there would be a few negative aspects. The cost for heating and cooling a school as well as the cost for paying teachers would be a little larger. Despite the draw backs of lengthening school, the outcome would certainly be worth it.
If we lengthen the school year, I guarantee that American schools will have better test scores and students will become greater attributes to our country and the world. In my opinion the best way to improve on our educational system is to shorten the summer and increase the number of days spent in school. Education is one of the most valuable things to have in life and without it our country would not be as great as it is.

 

[bionicarm]

Various school systems have tried year-round school (we had it here at my daughter's elementary school when she first went). As a parent, I thought it was great. They got a two-week break every three months, and as you stated, they never had that long period of no school to where they would forget the information. Our school district dropped it for one main reason - funding. They couldn't afford to pay teacher salaries year round. We have all three levels of the school system laying off teachers today because of budget constraints. Our illustrious Governor Rick Perry refused a $500 million educational 'bailout' from the Feds because he essentially is running for re-election, and is riding the Tea Bagger Anti-Obama Train. Then he turns around and talks about budget cuts in the Texas Educational System. The teachers in Texas don't teach the basic cirriculum they way I was taught growing up. They teach to this State-mandated standardized test. School districts receive their funding based on how well their schools get their students to pass the test. So it's this 'trickle down' mentality where the Ditrict Superintendent grades the school principal based on his school's passing rate of the test, and the principal rates his teachers on the passing rates of their students. If either one 'fails' they don't get funding, they don't get bonuses, they don't get raises, and some teachers lose their jobs. The kids are the one's that suffer because they don't get the quality education they deserve.
Right now, our school's end the year on June 3rd, and return on August 24th. So they get 2 1/2 months to do absolutely nothing. Would that time be better spent in school? Absolutely. But only if they are getting the education they deserve, not some regurgitation of some test that was taken a year or two earlier.

 

[reefraff]

The first step in correcting the education problem is the elimination of teachers unions. Then you can get policies in place that will benefit the students rather than the union members.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3229555
The first step in correcting the education problem is the elimination of teachers unions. Then you can get policies in place that will benefit the students rather than the union members.

By the way Bionic, teachers around here, and most other places I know of get paid year round as it is. They dont NOT get paid over their 2.5 month paid vacation...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3229572

By the way Bionic, teachers around here, and most other places I know of get paid year round as it is. They dont NOT get paid over their 2.5 month paid vacation...
The teachers I know have the option get paid year round or get paid for the 9 month's they're in school. Same amount, just different scales.

 

[gill again68]

The War on Education in Alabama is being won. I pay to have my kids taught in a private school and I also pay my taxes. By doing this it allows politicians the ability to cut spending in education while actually needed less money to educate the current head count. You have to follow the Money here or you will get lost. Most of our schools here are in bad shape and money gets cut every year. With that more and more private schools are going up and you cant get a kid in one, even in these hard times. There are no tax breaks for sending your child to private school so all that money is there. Where did it go you ask? I think you know the answer. The ultimate plan is to get us all dumb enough that we no longer notice.

 

[bionicarm]

Where does the money go? In San Antonio, I believe there are EIGHT different school districts. That's eight different school boards whose members make at least six figures each. People here have complained about this, and pushed for consolidation, but of course these school board administrators say it would be logistically impossible to manage a city as large as San Antonio with fewer districts.
I know several teachers, and yes, they do have an option to spread their pay across 12 months. But as stdreb27 stated, they get paid a salary so it really doesn't matter.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3229759
Where does the money go? In San Antonio, I believe there are EIGHT different school districts. That's eight different school boards whose members make at least six figures each. People here have complained about this, and pushed for consolidation, but of course these school board administrators say it would be logistically impossible to manage a city as large as San Antonio with fewer districts.
I know several teachers, and yes, they do have an option to spread their pay across 12 months. But as stdreb27 stated, they get paid a salary so it really doesn't matter.
When I lived in Montana the "metro" area of the county I lived in was less than 60,000 people. Standing on the roof of my house I could see the roof of houses in 3 different school districts. The county I believe had a population of about 100,000 and had 13 school districts. On top of all that there was a country superintendent of schools who's only real function seemed to be cashing her paycheck.

 

[sickboy]

To get better education, you need better teachers. Education courses in college aren't the most difficult, and the wages teachers get paid aren't going to persuade the math and science (the subjects most lacking) people to become teachers when they could make much more in the private sector. A lot of the issue is the profit motive. But then you have to contend with the teacher's unions.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/3229822
To get better education, you need better teachers. Education courses in college aren't the most difficult, and the wages teachers get paid aren't going to persuade the math and science (the subjects most lacking) people to become teachers when they could make much more in the private sector. A lot of the issue is the profit motive. But then you have to contend with the teacher's unions.
I don't know, there aren't tons of sectors where you get a week off and christmas, a couple months off during the summer, plus spring and fall break. Then make 40k plus right out of college...
Entry level stuff in the corporate world just doesn't compete with a school teacher's salary...

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3229555
The first step in correcting the education problem is the elimination of teachers unions. Then you can get policies in place that will benefit the students rather than the union members.
As an teacher in a right to work state, I disagree with your statement. Policies like those being promoted by our current national administration benefit neither the student nor the teacher. They do however create the illusion of benefiting the student.
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3229572

By the way Bionic, teachers around here, and most other places I know of get paid year round as it is. They dont NOT get paid over their 2.5 month paid vacation...
Actually this is false. As an educator, I can choose to spread my 9 month salary out over a 12 month schedule. However, the illusion that I get paid for 12 months is false. I receive a 9 month salary and take a volunteer pay cut over the nine months in order to insure that I get a paycheck over the 2 1/2 months that I am not teaching. I, nor any teacher, DO NOT GET PAID FOR 12 MONTHS of working. So yes, teaching school year round does cost more money, it adds 3 months to the salary schedule.
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/3229822
To get better education, you need better teachers. Education courses in college aren't the most difficult, and the wages teachers get paid aren't going to persuade the math and science (the subjects most lacking) people to become teachers when they could make much more in the private sector. A lot of the issue is the profit motive. But then you have to contend with the teacher's unions.
Agree with the profit motive - although there are plenty of good teachers out there in these areas. The biggest problems facing education today for our youth are over testing (under the illusion of creating better education) and merit pay for teachers. Both programs drive teachers to teach to a test, rather than truly teaching.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3230094
I don't know, there aren't tons of sectors where you get a week off and christmas, a couple months off during the summer, plus spring and fall break. Then make 40k plus right out of college...
Entry level stuff in the corporate world just doesn't compete with a school teacher's salary...
I disagree strongly on this. You show me a business sector job that doesn't allow you to accumulate paid vacation. I know individuals in the private sector who get paid for 3 months of vacation. After 15 years on the job, I get paid for zero vacation days - my teaching contract is negotiated on the number of days I actually work, and during which school is in session. Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacation or not paid vacations. Additionally, I worked yesterday, how many of you did? And I'm willing to bet that if you do a little actual research, you will find that that is true in almost every case. As for 40K plus out of college, I find that highly unlikely; most education jobs with a BA start around 30K, maybe a little higher.
What I see here is exactly whats typical in this country today. A bunch of people who want to bitch about our education system and how its broken and want to run around comparing us to foreign countries. Do some research on those foreign countries. IF you sent me only the top 10% of students and asked me to educate them, I could show you incredible results as well. In America, we education 100% of kids, including those who have no desire to be here, and those of parents who believe that public education is a babysitting service where they can send their child and not have to deal with them.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
As an teacher in a right to work state, I disagree with your statement. Policies like those being promoted by our current national administration benefit neither the student nor the teacher. They do however create the illusion of benefiting the student.
Actually this is false. As an educator, I can choose to spread my 9 month salary out over a 12 month schedule. However, the illusion that I get paid for 12 months is false. I receive a 9 month salary and take a volunteer pay cut over the nine months in order to insure that I get a paycheck over the 2 1/2 months that I am not teaching. I, nor any teacher, DO NOT GET PAID FOR 12 MONTHS of working. So yes, teaching school year round does cost more money, it adds 3 months to the salary schedule.
Agree with the profit motive - although there are plenty of good teachers out there in these areas. The biggest problems facing education today for our youth are over testing (under the illusion of creating better education) and merit pay for teachers. Both programs drive teachers to teach to a test, rather than truly teaching.
I disagree strongly on this. You show me a business sector job that doesn't allow you to accumulate paid vacation. I know individuals in the private sector who get paid for 3 months of vacation. After 15 years on the job, I get paid for zero vacation days - my teaching contract is negotiated on the number of days I actually work, and during which school is in session. Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacation or not paid vacations. Additionally, I worked yesterday, how many of you did? And I'm willing to bet that if you do a little actual research, you will find that that is true in almost every case. As for 40K plus out of college, I find that highly unlikely; most education jobs with a BA start around 30K, maybe a little higher.
What I see here is exactly whats typical in this country today. A bunch of people who want to bitch about our education system and how its broken and want to run around comparing us to foreign countries. Do some research on those foreign countries. IF you sent me only the top 10% of students and asked me to educate them, I could show you incredible results as well. In America, we education 100% of kids, including those who have no desire to be here, and those of parents who believe that public education is a babysitting service where they can send their child and not have to deal with them.
I have lots of friends in the IT business who didn't get yesterday off. Before starting my own business, I worked for a company for 15 years where I only got 11 holidays off, and at the end, 3 weeks vacation that I couldn't roll over to the next year.
You need to come to San Antonio and teach. My school district, Northside Independent, pays teachers coming straight out of college with a BA $47,000/year to start, working a 187 days a year. For 15 years of experience, you'd make $52,239 with a BA.
http://www.nisd.net/hr/compensation/...WEB%202009.htm

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
Actually this is false. As an educator, I can choose to spread my 9 month salary out over a 12 month schedule. However, the illusion that I get paid for 12 months is false. I receive a 9 month salary and take a volunteer pay cut over the nine months in order to insure that I get a paycheck over the 2 1/2 months that I am not teaching. I, nor any teacher, DO NOT GET PAID FOR 12 MONTHS of working. So yes, teaching school year round does cost more money, it adds 3 months to the salary schedule.
Regardless of whether you choose to get paid for 9 months or 12 months of the year, you are still getting an ANNUAL salary. Around here, that salary is insanely high for the amount of work required versus the amount of time actually spent workingteaching.
I disagree strongly on this. You show me a business sector job that doesn't allow you to accumulate paid vacation. I know individuals in the private sector who get paid for 3 months of vacation. After 15 years on the job, I get paid for zero vacation days - my teaching contract is negotiated on the number of days I actually work, and during which school is in session. Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacation or not paid vacations. Additionally, I worked yesterday, how many of you did? And I'm willing to bet that if you do a little actual research, you will find that that is true in almost every case. As for 40K plus out of college, I find that highly unlikely; most education jobs with a BA start around 30K, maybe a little higher.
I know of very few businesses where you can carry vacation time over from year to year. Many places will pay you out at the end of the year if you dont use your time, but many others, if you dont use it, you lose it.
I know a few teachers and they ALL make exorbitantly high salaries. One in particular is an elementary school gym teacher who makes well in excess of 90K a year. Tell me how that can possibly be justifiable if it weren't for the damn teachers unions taking the tax payers over the coals?

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
As an teacher in a right to work state, I disagree with your statement. Policies like those being promoted by our current national administration benefit neither the student nor the teacher. They do however create the illusion of benefiting the student.
I hear this all the time, but no one every explains why they do not benefit.
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
Actually this is false. As an educator, I can choose to spread my 9 month salary out over a 12 month schedule. However, the illusion that I get paid for 12 months is false. I receive a 9 month salary and take a volunteer pay cut over the nine months in order to insure that I get a paycheck over the 2 1/2 months that I am not teaching. I, nor any teacher, DO NOT GET PAID FOR 12 MONTHS of working. So yes, teaching school year round does cost more money, it adds 3 months to the salary schedule.
A national average of around 42,000 a year for 9.5 months is not to bad when you think about it. Especially when compared to the level of education needed to become a teacher.
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
Agree with the profit motive - although there are plenty of good teachers out there in these areas. The biggest problems facing education today for our youth are over testing (under the illusion of creating better education) and merit pay for teachers. Both programs drive teachers to teach to a test, rather than truly teaching.
Why is teaching to a test bad? Explain this to me. especially when the test is on math and other skills needed. If you didn't have this test coming up what would you teach instead? I hear this argument all the time. It is the single weakest argument I have ever heard. All teachers teach to a test. You teach the course than hold a test on what the course was about at the end. Your real issue is you don't create the test and therefore do not get to dictate what is taught. ALL teachers teach to a test...the difference is this time it isn't your test.
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
r />I disagree strongly on this. You show me a business sector job that doesn't allow you to accumulate paid vacation. I know individuals in the private sector who get paid for 3 months of vacation. After 15 years on the job, I get paid for zero vacation days - my teaching contract is negotiated on the number of days I actually work, and during which school is in session. Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacation or not paid vacations. Additionally, I worked yesterday, how many of you did? And I'm willing to bet that if you do a little actual research, you will find that that is true in almost every case. As for 40K plus out of college, I find that highly unlikely; most education jobs with a BA start around 30K, maybe a little higher.
So you are telling me the average teacher's salary of 42,000 per year is actually paid out for LESS than 9.5 months of work. since you don't get paid for those holidays. So you work 8.5 months out of the year and make 42,000......I know a lot of people that would trade you.
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
What I see here is exactly whats typical in this country today. A bunch of people who want to bitch about our education system and how its broken and want to run around comparing us to foreign countries. Do some research on those foreign countries. IF you sent me only the top 10% of students and asked me to educate them, I could show you incredible results as well. In America, we education 100% of kids, including those who have no desire to be here, and those of parents who believe that public education is a babysitting service where they can send their child and not have to deal with them.
I actually agree with you here. The system in my eyes is not the problem. It is the kids and the parents....not much can be learned from playing Halo for 3-6 hours a day....

 

[pezenfuego]

I actually agree with you here. The system in my eyes is not the problem. It is the kids and the parents....not much can be learned from playing Halo for 3-6 hours a day....
In my opinion, it isn't as much the kids that are at fault. Most of the fault falls on the parents. A lot of parents don't demand respect from their kids and the kids end up with an attitude that they are equals. Certain adults do not have any authority over kids (take you and me, Darth...just for an example). However, kids need to realize that parents, teachers, and bosses do have authority and should be respected. It isn't a teacher's job to make them realize that. It is the parent's job.
Anyway, what was my point? Ah yes, a lot of the fault falls on the parents. It isn't a teacher's job to ensure that 500 kids grow up to be model Americans. It is a teacher's job to teach. If the kid doesn't want to learn, who gets to take the blame?
We can't say that ALL of the blame is on parents and students. There are a LOT of dumb, irresponsible, or otherwise apathetic teachers out there.
The way I see it, there is a range as far as teachers go. I have names for it, but they won't make sense to you so let's move on.
There is the teacher who spoon-feeds his/her students all of the information they need.
Then there is the teacher who passes out a book, does nothing for a week and then gives the students a test that he/she took from another teacher or wrote 27 years ago.
I'm not putting teachers into two categories here, don't misunderstand me. I'm giving a range. So an ideal teacher would be split 50/50 between the two teacher types.
The problem with the spoon-feeder is that he/she explains things in too much detail without allowing the students to make their own inferences about the subject matter. The listener gets bored or wastes time that could be put to better use.
The problem with the second type of educator is fairly obvious. They aren't teaching. With no study guides, discussions, or quizzes, the student's grade comes down to how well they read and how hard the test is.
I'm sure you have had both types of teachers and everything in-between.
Sorry to ramble. I suppose I'll post this though lol.

 

[reefraff]

No offense intended to any teachers on the board but I really think some teachers should look at getting a job in the private sector if they think they have it so bad. If you look at the yearly salary, benefits and time off it is actually a pretty good gig. I realize all that time off isnt going to pay the bills but I know several people who went into teaching or at least working for the school district because it made it a lot easier to deal with their kids, having the same off time I mean. Saved them a lot on child care for younger kids and made it a little easier to keep track of the older ones.
As far as the union goes it is the unions that keep teaching a closed profession. If Bill Gates applied for a job teaching computer science in middle school he would be turned down. Thats just dumb.

 

[bionicarm]

We've had the "teaching to the test" argument. The problem with this mantra, is these standardized tests only cover certain curriculum, varying very little from year to year. So instead of teaching the information found in the recommended books, they grab versions of these standardized tests from previous years, and teach the kids how to answer the questions on the test based on these previous questions. Almost like memorizing answers to questions. You would be amazed at the number of kids out there that haven't been taught basic math skills - multiplication and division tables, basic math formulas, etc. Why? Because the teachers are spending all their time showing the kids which answer to select on these standarized tests. It's just like these Sylvan Learning Centers you send kids to so they can get higher scores on their ACT's and SAT's. Those places just drill the kids on the questions they know are on the test. It 's called repetitive training. I'll take a teacher any day that can take the state recommended book for their subject, and actually go through that book teaching the student based on the information contained in that book. Then allow the teacher to create a test based on the information he/she has taught, not what some principal has told him or her to test their students on.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3230132
In my opinion, it isn't as much the kids that are at fault. Most of the fault falls on the parents. A lot of parents don't demand respect from their kids and the kids end up with an attitude that they are equals.
Profound statement coming from a kid

The lack of respect kids show to adults is incredible. When I was a kid I would say my parents were pretty lenient. Even so if we had ever been caught smarting off to an adult, let along telling them where to go and what to do once they get there like a lot of kids today will do, we would have been beaten like a redheaded step child.
My kid was 12 when I met his mom. After we were married we had a come to Jesus meeting once he challenged me. I told him he could do as he was told because he loved me, respected me as an adult in a parental position or feared me but I was twice his size and he would do as I or his mother told him for one of the stated reasons. Then I let him breath again

Anyway after that we really did see eye to eye. Not to say he never pushed his luck or screwed up but when push came to shove he did what he was told.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/3230103
I disagree strongly on this. You show me a business sector job that doesn't allow you to accumulate paid vacation. I know individuals in the private sector who get paid for 3 months of vacation. After 15 years on the job, I get paid for zero vacation days - my teaching contract is negotiated on the number of days I actually work, and during which school is in session. Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacation or not paid vacations. Additionally, I worked yesterday, how many of you did? And I'm willing to bet that if you do a little actual research, you will find that that is true in almost every case. As for 40K plus out of college, I find that highly unlikely; most education jobs with a BA start around 30K, maybe a little higher.
Mine, and every job I've ever worked. Never been allowed to roll over vacation. Never had more than a week of vacation and sick days combined either...
Look, I got out of school and gave a hard look to Teachers for America (or of ( can't remember right now) and they're package was better than the job I ended up taking. In the houston area, could have gotten anywhere from 35-50k first year. The packages included around week of "personal days" to be used for jury duty, illness, or whatever. You can divide up how they spread out your "working days" to include your holiday breaks or not. It was a really good package for someone comming out of school. Just wasn't what I wanted to do. you get a husband and wife doing that you'll end up with 80k plus right after school as newly weds. It isn't bad at all... (all this is coming from a major urban and surrounding school districts) you go out to podunkville east texas, then it isn't nearly as rich. Which is what I think you're experiencing in Wy...