The War on Education

uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3230794
uneveno was stating redundancy doesn't lead to insanity...that was all. a cup of coffee in the morning every day for 40 years is redundant...does that make the person insane?
Thank you.
PEZ - I meant no offence nor was I agreeing, disagreeing or packaging an opinion to prove you wrong. I truly did not understand the logical connection between the two sentences. I was not badgering, I was asking for clarification. Sorry if I phrased my statement offensively to you.
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3231180
Thank you.
PEZ - I meant no offence. I truly did not understand the connectivity in your statement.
I think the word you were looking for is "offense," Mr. Degree In Comparative Linguistics.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Heard on the news this morning that Houston ISD has now passed an edict whereby the teacher's performance will now be graded on the passing rate of their students who take the Texas TAKS Test. Those teacher's who have a high failure rate will be subjected to immediate termination. On the other hand, if you have a high or perfect passing rate, you get a bonus. They said one teacher got a $9,000 bonus this last year because of her efforts to get her student's TAKS scores up to an acceptable level. Looks like Houston schools have turned into Sylvan Learning Centers.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
That's brilliant...
So, the purpose of tenure having been that educators could not be fired for teaching truth to politics, we're now going to reverse that policy.
Good call...
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
2+2= whatever my Government says it does.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3234073
That's brilliant...
So, the purpose of tenure having been that educators could not be fired for teaching truth to politics, we're now going to reverse that policy.
Good call...
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
2+2= whatever my Government says it does.
But what if tenure also protects someone teaching politics instead of truth?
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3234073
That's brilliant...
So, the purpose of tenure having been that educators could not be fired for teaching truth to politics, we're now going to reverse that policy.
Actually, that is a common misconception. Tenure was envisioned as a way to allow scholars to conduct _research_ unfettered by administrative or political control. Many people misconstrue this form of academic freedom as allowing instructors to teach whatever they wish to in class, and nothing could be further from the truth. Every course has a syllabus, and the instructor is expected to teach to that syllabus; "academic freedom" is an irrelevant concept. It is a perversion of the original intention of tenure to apply it to individuals who are not involved in scholarly research.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3234144
Actually, that is a common misconception. Tenure was envisioned as a way to allow scholars to conduct _research_ unfettered by administrative or political control. Many people misconstrue this form of academic freedom as allowing instructors to teach whatever they wish to in class, and nothing could be further from the truth. Every course has a syllabus, and the instructor is expected to teach to that syllabus; "academic freedom" is an irrelevant concept. It is a perversion of the original intention of tenure to apply it to individuals who are not involved in scholarly research.
But it does happen. I had teachers in high school that were tenured and you could tell that they could care less about whether their students were learning anything or if they were actually teaching well. They had their jobs guaranteed and no one or nothing could get rid of them. Many, many teachers get into the job for the benefits, vacation and in my area, incredibly high salaries for very little work. These people work for a few years, get their tenure and then just coast for the rest of their careers, collecting their insane paychecks, free healthcare for life, vacation and pensions.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3234146
But it does happen. I had teachers in high school that were tenured and you could tell that they could care less about whether their students were learning anything or if they were actually teaching well. They had their jobs guaranteed and no one or nothing could get rid of them. Many, many teachers get into the job for the benefits, vacation and in my area, incredibly high salaries for very little work. These people work for a few years, get their tenure and then just coast for the rest of their careers, collecting their insane paychecks, free healthcare for life, vacation and pensions.
I agree! I once had a hs history teacher who refused to teach ancient history because it conflicted with the biblical timeline.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3234894
I agree! I once had a hs history teacher who refused to teach ancient history because it conflicted with the biblical timeline.
They wouldn't last long in today's environment.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3234956
They wouldn't last long in today's environment.
They might. The process of firing a tenured high school teacher is long, arduous and expensive. Google "Freshwater". He is a hs science teacher who appears to be a creationist in class and is charged with using a Telsa coil to burn a cross onto a student's arm. If true, he should be fired, but the hearing is taking a year, so far, and is costing the school district a fortune.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
I've actually never heard of a public school teacher getting awarded tenure at the school they teach at. I thought that was reserved for college professors. I know most teachers are required to join unions, so maybe school's have a difficulty firing a specific teacher based on union contracts.
Did you see the story of that Rhode Island school where the School Board came in and fired every single teacher in the school? It's been one of the lowest performing school's in the nation, and the parents and Board said "enough is enough". All the teacher's are fighting the firings in court, with this Teacher's Union backing them all the way.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3235358
I've actually never heard of a public school teacher getting awarded tenure at the school they teach at. I thought that was reserved for college professors. I know most teachers are required to join unions, so maybe school's have a difficulty firing a specific teacher based on union contracts.
In New York tenure is quite common at all levels.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3235320
They might. The process of firing a tenured high school teacher is long, arduous and expensive. Google "Freshwater". He is a hs science teacher who appears to be a creationist in class and is charged with using a Telsa coil to burn a cross onto a student's arm. If true, he should be fired, but the hearing is taking a year, so far, and is costing the school district a fortune.
How about the guy who is still drawing a salary but won't be allowed back into the class room for making inappropriate remarks to some female students. He spends his days working on his own business from the school.
I think at the university level tenure makes sense because the courses can cover subjects that lend themselves to controversies. In the K-12 system there just isn't that need, be it actual tenure or ridiculous union contracts.
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
In Illinois they Tenure teachers also. Trust me it SUCKS when you get a bad teacher and the District will not get rid of them BECAUSE THEY HAVE TENURE. When I was in HS there was a Math Teacher that had no control of his classes yet he had Tenure and could not be fired. 2 Students were ASSULTED IN HIS CLASSROOM and nothing was done to him yet he saw them assault the other student and he refused to do anything. The District lost a lawsuit over the assult yet he KEPT HIS JOB.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3235388
In Illinois they Tenure teachers also. Trust me it SUCKS when you get a bad teacher and the District will not get rid of them BECAUSE THEY HAVE TENURE. When I was in HS there was a Math Teacher that had no control of his classes yet he had Tenure and could not be fired. 2 Students were ASSULTED IN HIS CLASSROOM and nothing was done to him yet he saw them assault the other student and he refused to do anything. The District lost a lawsuit over the assult yet he KEPT HIS JOB.

There is a law that states you don't have to intervene to prevent a crime.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3235401
There is a law that states you don't have to intervene to prevent a crime.
I would argue that there is a moral law that if you are caring for children you should intervene to prevent injury to a child. That math teacher in Colorado the other day who wrestled the gun away from the guy shooting at children is my hero.
 
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