Thickness of Substrate
- Thread starter kevin5500
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royal gang
Active Member
Lol, 2 inches or 4, not in between.
1journeyman
Active Member
A shallow sand bed should be less than 2 inches.
For a deep sand bed, a depth of at least 4 inches is preferred.
In between is too deep to get cleaned well by critters, and too shallow for a DSB's benefits.
For a deep sand bed, a depth of at least 4 inches is preferred.
In between is too deep to get cleaned well by critters, and too shallow for a DSB's benefits.
kevin5500
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
A shallow sand bed should be less than 2 inches.
For a deep sand bed, a depth of at least 4 inches is preferred.
In between is too deep to get cleaned well by critters, and too shallow for a DSB's benefits.
What factors do I need to consider to determine if a deep or shallow sandbed is right for me? I have always preferred deep personally
A shallow sand bed should be less than 2 inches.
For a deep sand bed, a depth of at least 4 inches is preferred.
In between is too deep to get cleaned well by critters, and too shallow for a DSB's benefits.
What factors do I need to consider to determine if a deep or shallow sandbed is right for me? I have always preferred deep personally
yogoshio
Member
I would say stick with a shallow sandbed. If you have a deep sandbed, there are so many anaerobic reactions going on that even when you stir it up, you're releasing toxins in the water. The best bet is to make sure all of your glass is easily covered on the bottom, with some extra just in case some fish kick it around while swimming. I'm not sure why people have this idea that deep sandbeds are a beneficial thing. The only live substrate is what makes contact with the water at any given moment, so the deeper the sandbed, the more dead sand you have, and if it was alive before, now it's going through anaerobic reactions like I said before which isn't good.
1journeyman
Active Member
Deep sand beds get a bad rap. I suspect it's because they were not set up properly.
Deep sand beds are great for exporting Nitrate. That said, you must care for them. Brisk water flow to eliminate particles settling on sand, heavy skimming, lot's of micro critters in sand, NO sand Sifting fish or inverts and proper depth.
I've heard many times that stirring up a deep sand bed releases toxic gasses. That said, I've read studies, articles etc. that argue against this. Furthermore, I moved my 210 that had a 6 inch sand bed with no ill effects.
Deep sand beds are great for exporting Nitrate. That said, you must care for them. Brisk water flow to eliminate particles settling on sand, heavy skimming, lot's of micro critters in sand, NO sand Sifting fish or inverts and proper depth.
I've heard many times that stirring up a deep sand bed releases toxic gasses. That said, I've read studies, articles etc. that argue against this. Furthermore, I moved my 210 that had a 6 inch sand bed with no ill effects.
yogoshio
Member
Just because they didn't hurt anything doesn't mean they're not there. It's a precarious situation. The fact of the matter is, no matter how you look at it, a deep sandbed is the same as covering dead material with live material. Things break down, toxins store up, and when jumbled around, get released. If they come out and it does nothing, it does nothing, but its still there. And exporting nitrates only works when the whole bed is able to be exfoliated, which is a messy job and takes too much time and is a big risk and waste.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Yogoshio
Just because they didn't hurt anything doesn't mean they're not there. It's a precarious situation. The fact of the matter is, no matter how you look at it, a deep sandbed is the same as covering dead material with live material. Things break down, toxins store up, and when jumbled around, get released. If they come out and it does nothing, it does nothing, but its still there. And exporting nitrates only works when the whole bed is able to be exfoliated, which is a messy job and takes too much time and is a big risk and waste.
This is incorrect.
Live fauna in the top couple of inches keeps the sand stirred up. The bacteria in the lower depths of the sand will break down Nitrate and turn it into harmless gasses.
With brisk flow and proper critters there will be no "dead materials" building up in the sand. Nor will there be any toxic build up of chemicals.
Just because they didn't hurt anything doesn't mean they're not there. It's a precarious situation. The fact of the matter is, no matter how you look at it, a deep sandbed is the same as covering dead material with live material. Things break down, toxins store up, and when jumbled around, get released. If they come out and it does nothing, it does nothing, but its still there. And exporting nitrates only works when the whole bed is able to be exfoliated, which is a messy job and takes too much time and is a big risk and waste.
This is incorrect.
Live fauna in the top couple of inches keeps the sand stirred up. The bacteria in the lower depths of the sand will break down Nitrate and turn it into harmless gasses.
With brisk flow and proper critters there will be no "dead materials" building up in the sand. Nor will there be any toxic build up of chemicals.
geoj
Active Member
Why live sand?
It provides the environment for bacteria, and contains the live bacteria. Two inches of fine live sand will provide Ammonification and Nitrification. If this bed of sand becomes clogged with waste it will start Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation and Denitrification which is not Bad like many think, but hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria can be a problem. If hydrogen sulfide gas builds up in the sand and then is released in to the water by disturbing the sand the concentration may be harmful. If the sand bed is too thick you will get Anaerobic water and hydrogen sulfide gas. So keep the (two inches of fine live sand) clean and Anaerobic water will not occur in the sand. The use of fish and invertebrates to keep the sand sifting and unclogged will let you go with a deeper bed.
Why cured live rock?
It provides the environment for bacteria, and contains the live bacteria. In the correct amount and thickness it provides Ammonification, Nitrification, Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation and Denitrification. Now this is the trick we want some Anaerobic water deep in the rock so the nitrates will be dinitrogenated or changed into largely inert nitrogen gas. You will see bubbles on your rock this is not air it is mostly nitrogen gas, dinitrogen gas, and a little hydrogen sulfide gas. This gas is released in a constant manner not likely to concentrate and become harmful.
Ammonification
Nitrates are the form of nitrogen most commonly assimilated by plant species, which, in turn are consumed by heterotrophs for use in compounds such as amino and nucleic acids. The remains of heterotrophs will then be decomposed into nutrient-rich organic material. Bacteria or in some cases, fungi, will convert the nitrates within the remains back into ammonia. Needs oxygenated water!
Nitrification
The conversion of ammonia to nitrates is performed primarily by soil and water-living bacteria and other nitrifying bacteria. The primary stage of nitrification, the oxidation of ammonia (NH3) is performed by bacteria such as the Nitrosomonas species, which converts ammonia to nitrites (NO2-). Other bacterial species, such as the Nitrobacter, are responsible for the oxidation of the nitrites into nitrates (NO3-). Needs oxygenated water!
Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation
In this biological process, nitrite and ammonium are converted directly into dinitrogen gas. This process makes up a major proportion of dinitrogen conversion in the oceans. Needs Anaerobic water!
Denitrification
Denitrification is the reduction of nitrates back into the largely inert nitrogen gas (N2), completing the nitrogen cycle. This process is performed by bacterial species such as the Pseudomonas and Clostridium. Needs Anaerobic water!
You see that a little Anaerobic water can go a long way to keep the tank clean, but if not kept in check hydrogen sulfide producers can be a problem! So keep the water moving and the sand sifting.
GeoJ
It provides the environment for bacteria, and contains the live bacteria. Two inches of fine live sand will provide Ammonification and Nitrification. If this bed of sand becomes clogged with waste it will start Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation and Denitrification which is not Bad like many think, but hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria can be a problem. If hydrogen sulfide gas builds up in the sand and then is released in to the water by disturbing the sand the concentration may be harmful. If the sand bed is too thick you will get Anaerobic water and hydrogen sulfide gas. So keep the (two inches of fine live sand) clean and Anaerobic water will not occur in the sand. The use of fish and invertebrates to keep the sand sifting and unclogged will let you go with a deeper bed.
Why cured live rock?
It provides the environment for bacteria, and contains the live bacteria. In the correct amount and thickness it provides Ammonification, Nitrification, Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation and Denitrification. Now this is the trick we want some Anaerobic water deep in the rock so the nitrates will be dinitrogenated or changed into largely inert nitrogen gas. You will see bubbles on your rock this is not air it is mostly nitrogen gas, dinitrogen gas, and a little hydrogen sulfide gas. This gas is released in a constant manner not likely to concentrate and become harmful.
Ammonification
Nitrates are the form of nitrogen most commonly assimilated by plant species, which, in turn are consumed by heterotrophs for use in compounds such as amino and nucleic acids. The remains of heterotrophs will then be decomposed into nutrient-rich organic material. Bacteria or in some cases, fungi, will convert the nitrates within the remains back into ammonia. Needs oxygenated water!
Nitrification
The conversion of ammonia to nitrates is performed primarily by soil and water-living bacteria and other nitrifying bacteria. The primary stage of nitrification, the oxidation of ammonia (NH3) is performed by bacteria such as the Nitrosomonas species, which converts ammonia to nitrites (NO2-). Other bacterial species, such as the Nitrobacter, are responsible for the oxidation of the nitrites into nitrates (NO3-). Needs oxygenated water!
Anaerobic Ammonium Oxidation
In this biological process, nitrite and ammonium are converted directly into dinitrogen gas. This process makes up a major proportion of dinitrogen conversion in the oceans. Needs Anaerobic water!
Denitrification
Denitrification is the reduction of nitrates back into the largely inert nitrogen gas (N2), completing the nitrogen cycle. This process is performed by bacterial species such as the Pseudomonas and Clostridium. Needs Anaerobic water!
You see that a little Anaerobic water can go a long way to keep the tank clean, but if not kept in check hydrogen sulfide producers can be a problem! So keep the water moving and the sand sifting.
GeoJ