Thinking about adding a sump but need help

alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
So i think i might be best off adding a sump with a fuge and prolly a skimmer so i have the basic idea of it and have a 20 gallon tank laying aroung but i dont understand these overflow boxes like what size should i run and a return pump what size along with the lines how big and all that good stuff, As for the sump it seem pretty simple with placing balffles but some insight or plans that anyone has let me know lets figure this out so i can get a idea price and see if i can afford it!
75 gallon main not drilled
got 20gallon 24x16x12
return height would be 4ft
have to use some kind of overflow system as my tank is not drilled and i dont think it would be a good idea to have it drilled to much work lol
so let me know what you all got, Thanks
 
oceana

oceana

Active Member
simple over flow box running two 1 inch drains with a return pump of around 1200 gallons per hours would be good. very easy to set up and if you get a nice over flow it should maintain itself for the most part. simply put a few hose barbs on the drains and run flex tubing to your sump. then run some flex from your return pump over the side of the tank for your return. all the parts your need can be found at home depot or your LFS. there are more and some better ways to do this but since you seem new to the plumbing game that is the fastest and easiest way to get the job done.
PS the 20 long is very easy to drill and would make it easy to add a external pump to avoid any heat transfer
 
oceana

oceana

Active Member
simple over flow box running two 1 inch drains with a return pump of around 1200 gallons per hours would be good. very easy to set up and if you get a nice over flow it should maintain itself for the most part. simply put a few hose barbs on the drains and run flex tubing to your sump. then run some flex from your return pump over the side of the tank for your return. all the parts your need can be found at home depot or your LFS. there are more and some better ways to do this but since you seem new to the plumbing game that is the fastest and easiest way to get the job done
PS the 20 long is very easy to drill and would make it easy to add a external pump to avoid any heat transfer
 
alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
do they really put off that much heat? How do you control the flow of the overflow you do you just have to take a good guess on what flow they will do? where about should i put the baffles?
About flow i have been reading a ton on it and it says everywhere to go like 10-20x a hr flip but in a 20l sump your only talking 12 gallons of water and at 1200gph that is what like 100x a hr then? I dont understand that part! Also my sump is just for a fuge so wouldnt i want a slower flow like 5-12gph flip in the sump? which would be like a 300gph overflow then, this part i really dont understand, I got a good idea of everything else but would like advice on the top but on the bottom i have no clue!
Thanks
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
since you don't have a skimmer in your sump, then yes a lower turnover rate would be much better, like you said , I would shoot for 8 to 12 times per hour sump size. with that a single overflow would be plenty, it could run around 600 gph and a small pump in the sump would work with very little heat transfer, when getting a pump just be sure to figure in the height it will have to travel back to the DT and amount of restrictions such as elbows you will have to figure the head loose, so a pump that has a 600 gph rating my only produce 300 gph depending on your pipining arrangement
 
alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
right about 300gph but that is still 15 gallon div by 300gph and your still at like 20x a hr flip rate so i would need like a
300gph overflow really doing about 150 witch would be around 10x hr right?
Or do i use ball valves to reduce the flow?
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
just use a smaller pump that will give you some were close to the flow your looking for, which should be aroud 150 to 200 gph, no more water will flow out of the overflow then what the pump puts back in.
 
alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
oh so i can get whatever overflow i want or should i get the small one? I am looking at getting cpr overflows do you advise against that? If not im looking at the cs50 300gph would that work for me? Then i will just add a pump at 4 ft plus head loss that returns about 150gph,
Now i just gotta figure out my baffles and overflow room for tank and sump! But i found some good tools for figuring it out just all very confussing for me sense this is my first time!
Let me more details please as i have read everything everywhere but nothing really states this stuff!
Thanks
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
not that familier with CPR overflows, but just some type of hang on overflow that would put out 300 gph or so would work, since your not looking for a lot of flow there. as far as baffles since this is just a fuge/sump design I would set up a small compartment on one side (perferably closest to the supply) maybe 4" wide and then install three partitions or baffles for bubble traps, first one from the bottom of the tank up to fuge level, the second one about 1" above the bottom and up past the fuge level, and the third would be the fuge level. that should trap out the bubbles for the supply, I woud space the baffles about 1" apart. then you have the fuge compartment and at the other end a sump return, this is were you will need enough room to set the pump and give yourself enough room in the sump so that if you have a power outage it will fill up the sump and not run over before it reaches the siphon break in your return line, I would say make this 8' or 9" wide, also I would add a short baffle after the fuge going from the bottom of the tank up maybe 6" to 7" this helps for when the sump is low and the water from the fuge falls into the sump, it will create a waterfall effect producing bubbles, the short baffle will catch these bubbles and not pull them right into your pump suction.
Hope all this makes sense.
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
since you only have 24" to work with overall you may have to shrink a few of these dim. up a bit to try and get as much fuge area as you can
 
alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
yeah like the pump side that sucks cuz thats alot of wasted space, i have a 20 long but i would think a higher tank would be better as i was thinking about doing a dsb in the fuge, what do you think about that? If i dont do a dsb in the sump i would think the 20l would be better then
I got the hole idea i just need to figure out how high the water will be and ect to prevent flood witch will depend on how high the baffles are, thats the only thing left i need to figure out besides what size to go also,
Hey really thanks for your help just a little more and i should be set, for this part then comes plumbing lol
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
Well I'll tell ya how I set mine up for an 80 gal. and it works great, Do you use a skimmer, if so you could go with a 29 gal tank and actually set up a skimmer compartment, with that you have 30" to play with. I ended up with a fuge on one side and a skimmer compartment on the other and the return in the middle, cleaned up the DT and added more flow thru the sump. the fuge ended up being around 15 gal. I would definetly go with a Deep sand bed in the fuge, and no sand in the sump, deep being 4"+. If your interested in going this route I'll help walk you thru it, if not we can go forward with the current design. for how high the water should be I would leave a couple of inches on the top, if for some reson you have a lot of water in the sump you have that much more extra room in the whole area for water to go instead of the floor if you have a power outage.
Gota go for now but will be back tommorow if you need any help let me know
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
well that sux, doesn't look good, never know when it could blow out, I would look at getting a tank, Oh well good excuse to go to a bigger tank.
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
IMO bigger is better, advantages= more room and more water volume, the more water volume the easier to keep things stabilized
 
ameno

ameno

Active Member
since your getting a new tank, you should look into one that is predrilled for overflows or plan on drilling it, you can get it done fairly cheap and then you don't have to worry about hang on overflows, loosing siphon and so forth
 
alfieferenzo84

alfieferenzo84

Member
i wish i had the money, the 75 gallon with 1 overflow with 2 drains was 399 lol and on top of that you had to buy a kit for each hole witch i think it was 59 bucks each, so yeah that dont look like its gonna work!!!
is hob overflows really that bad?
well i think with the tank having to be replaced i am gonna have to hold of on one thing either the skimmer or a fuge i wounder witch one should wait a little bit?
I kinda want to wait on the fuge intil i have the money so i can do it right and not skimp on it you know, because when i get money i will buy a 30l prolly and make a large fuge out of that, as where if i did it now it would prolly have to be a 20l or 20h
If i buy a skimmer now i think my choice would be a used aqua c remora with a mag 3 and preskimmer box but i am having a hard time finding one for a okay price, because i look at it if i am going to spend 270 new then used i only want to spend like 100 because i rather spend a little more and get it new you know? Im not a big fan of used stuff!!!
Let me know what you think sense your really the only one giving me feedback rate now, Thanks
 
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