thinking about hard corals

rainbow grouper

Active Member
O.k so i thought i might start to get a few hard corals all my water conditions are ideal for LPS and SPS i have MH lights any other nuts and bolts about LPS and SPS any info greatly appreciated.
Also are alveoporas good for LPS and SPS novices. I'll send you test results soon as soon as i do another test.
 

tur4k

Member
Keep your dkH and calcium up. Keep your phosphates down. Make sure you have enough flow and you should be fine.
The higher you keep your dkH, the faster stoney corals will grow. Too high and you will run into issues with calcium precipitation. I try to keep mine around 9 or 10.
Higher calcium levels do not effect growth rates. Just make sure you always have enough calcium for them. I try to keep mine around 400-450.
Even low levels of phosphates can retard coral growth. Do what ever you can to keep phosphates as low as possible. Rinsing food, macro algea, phosphate absorbing media (phosban) and water changes are all good tools to help keep phosphates down.
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
dont forget lighting! Good light is key as well!
Growth in the physical matter dosent mean a lot to me when talking about stony coral! A lot of people keep their cal and mag and dkh going to keep their sps tall and wide but really a healthy specimen has nice tissue growth and polpys...If the zooelly and tissue dont keep up with the physical growth of the coral it will simply perish away later down the road...imo!
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
a good random flow too! LPS and softies are easy squeezy...those dang sps are something else though imo! I hear of people having better success with older tanks and doing weekly water changes than monthly!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Leather corals give off a slime and I read it bothers the SPS corals. I also was told mushrooms, while safe with everything else, are not safe with SPS coral. No phosphates and between 0 and 5 for nitrates, that's not much of a window.
I don't have SPS corals I am no expert, and I am going on info that I have read or was told..so take it with a grain of salt. They are beautiful corals.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
SPS corals give off a lot of slime - all corals do. Mucus from corals are actually eaten by other corals as food because of the many bacteria and zooxanthellae that is sloughed off with the mucus. I have heard of issues with mushrooms with SPS corals, mainly because of "toxins" in the water column released by mushrooms. However, if you do run carbon and keep it regularly changed once a month, you shouldn't have any problems with that.
SPS corals are great. As stated, you have to keep nitrate and phosphate as near to zero as possible. You will have to keep your calcium at about 460ppm and your alkalinity at around 10dKh, constant. Another thing about SPS corals is that they do not like temp swings, so watch your temp very carefully and adjust as quickly as possible to it. SPS corals, even though they have small polyps, will still need to be fed regularly. Phytoplankton, however, is not a full enriched food and is not the primary food for SPS corals. So, you may have to have regular feedings of Cyclopeeze and oyster eggs and maybe some golden pearls to keep them happy.
Only 50% of keeping SPS is light. Zooxanthellae in SPS coral tissues are the little algae that gives it color, and provides glucose (sugar) from photosynthesis. SPS corals can not live on glucose alone so they have to be provided bits of protein and algae and bacteria as the other half of their diet. You gotta meet the needs of your corals for them to grow and thrive.
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
Ive never heard of people feeding sps! This is just my .02 but sps live off 90% of light! Unlike lps and softies that eat stuff out of the water! That is why the zooelly is so defined in sps and why they shift colors if things arent correct! When they brown up they are actually gathering more zoelly to adapt to ur lighting so they can feed off the light! Also mushrooms dont give off toxins...that i know of! They simply spit out their guts and if something was to come into contact with the mushroom than ya it would prob damage em!
Softies such as kenya tree and such are the ones that release the toxins in the water!
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
1guyDude - All coral need to eat. Most of it is zooplankton which is produced by feeding the tank and not skimming out the particulate organic matter in the system before the corals eat it. "marine snow" if you will. You do not directly feed SPS corals at all. It's not like an anemone where you feed it shrimp or a brain coral or anything like that. Yes, they have smaller mouths and yes they need protein to survive. Zooxanthillae only produce glucose - which is sugar, and is unsustainable for an SPS coral to thrive. It's great for short term energy but not long term sustenance. Would you like to read Eric Bornemans article on "Reef Food." ?
What SPS corals need is more particulate organic matter (POM) in the water column, "Marine Snow" such as bacteria, mucous, forams, phytoplankton, copepods, amphipods, eggs and all types and kinds of zooplankton. It needs less dissolved organic matter (DOC) which is inorganic nitrate and inorganic phosphate. In order to produce zooplankton, you must feed the tank nutrient rich foods, which will produce live sources of food for SPS corals to eat. The problem comes from skimming out nutrients before it has a chance to be eaten.
SPS corals need high light sources because they are located primarily in shallow reefs. However, the amount of food that is washed over those reefs on a daily basis is overwhelming! They require high light and highly food dense areas to thrive!
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
im not trying to debate u...im just sayin wat ive learned and from my knowledge. Yes all coral eat but ur saying to feed the tanks zooplankton and such products....i believe that these products do contain such DOCs (disolved organic compounds) however ive never heard of inorganic phosphates or inorganice nitrates! Wat are these? I do believe that these liquid foods contain high phosphates and nitrates (higher than even flake foods)...which i why i primarily feed frozen. I do feed my tanks this phytoplankton stuff about every 2-3 months.
I would love to read this article if u have a link! Im new to the sps game and at the moment only have a pink millipora, green pollipora, and pink pollipora!
Hurry up and go to marine school...so i can envy u!
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Here's a link to Eric's article, it's in a reef keeping magazine, so I don't think that it is "from a competitors site" However, if it is, I'm sorry.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php
There are seven parts to the article. Each one explains a different aspect of reef food. It will explain inorganic and organic nitrates and phosphates pretty well. I'll see if I can get an exerp.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Reading along in Part 1, Eric Borneman's "Reef Food" Article for ReefKeeping Magazine:
"What we provide to, and what is provided by, our aquariums are extremely limited in both quality and quantity. Yet, many of us are troubled by high nitrate and phosphate readings. As a result, many aquarists resort to minimal feedings, in an attempt to keep water quality manageable. In terms of aquaria, which are closed systems, we do not have the luxury of billions upon countless billions of gallons of water to dilute and wash away high nutrient loads, nor do we have the bountiful biodiversity (for the most part) that maintains the "nutrient poor" water quality of a coral reef. In return, when our water tests "high" for nutrients, we are often plagued by those aesthetically undesirable organisms that are most adept at utilizing such resources as dissolved organic and inorganic material; the algae and cyanobacteria.
Filamentous, slime, smear, and macroalgae are highly efficient at absorbing such material, and they grow rapidly. In most circumstances, the microalgae and macroalgae, while very useful as part of turf scrubbers or small algal communities within a reef, often become problematic as they overtake the more aesthetically and, in some ways, functionally desirable crustose red algae (coralline), corals, and other sessile invertebrates. It should be noted, though, that these organisms might also be capable of significant nutrient uptake. Bacteria and phytoplankton are also extremely proficient at removing this material. All these organisms are quite valuable to our captive reef communities. They not only "purify" water by the utilization of nutrients, but also are all part of a beneficial food web, both in coral reefs and in aquariums."
This doesn't yet talk about organic and inorganic nitrates and phosphates, but I thought it was interestienough to bring up the subject.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Also Part 1 of Eric Borneman's "Reef Food" article on Reef Keeping Magazine
"As a result of the often unnaturally elevated nutrient levels in aquaria, we employ a number of nutrient export devices, such as filters, ozonizers, and protein skimmers (foam fractionators). We also tend to add these devices to avoid or limit another common nutrient export mechanism, the water change. Unfortunately, it is a serious and probably deleterious compromise in many ways. Such devices actively strip the water column of the very bacteria, detritus, mucus, and plankton that exist, limiting the effectiveness of our captive community to deal with the nutrients and, in return, providing food sources within the food web. When the water column is "stripped" of its productive elements, the populations of filter feeding and predatory sessile invertebrates are compromised, as is the productivity of the substrate communities - including the live rock and live sand with their associated microbial, floral, and faunal components. However, if we do not "purify" the water, we may encounter nutrient problems and react with limited feeding schedules. It is quite literally a Catch-22."
Still not what I am looking for, but also worth note. :D
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
Which part? I understand and agree with most above!
BTW sry rainbow for getting this thread off topic and totally hijacking u LOL!!!
I'll read ur link u gave me man!
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Also Part 1 of Eric Borneman's "Reef Food" article on Reef Keeping Magazine
"It is certainly possible to begin producing batch cultures of plankton and/or plankton substitutes. Culture materials are generally simple, and various algae, rotifers, Artemia nauplii, ciliates, mysids, Gammarus, etc. are readily available and easy to grow. These food sources are not only nutritious inputs for reef aquaria, but may be enriched with vitamins, minerals, trace elements, medications, antioxidants, etc., and used as biocarriers of such substances. Cultured food sources, I feel, are far more valuable in both time and expense than many of the other products and devices we operate and use.
Our use of "live sand" has provided another important contribution to food sources. These areas are breeding grounds for many of the worms, crustaceans, microbes, and algae that later directly feed grazers and predators, or add food to the water column with their larvae and gametes. Furthermore, the action of the sand and live rock communities as decomposers and consumers of organic and inorganic material is invaluable. Live rock is also an important source of detritus and other reef food.
We have also begun to make use of refugia, small areas or separate tanks separated from, but connected to, the main tank. Refugia provide areas where continual cultures of small flora and fauna can be produced without the intrusion of predators. I find refugia to be both fascinating sub-communities and very important for the main community."
AHH! Still not what I am looking for - but still good information.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
This is a graph from his article too. If you look at acropora, the majority of them sit on the fence between heterotrophy and autotrophy. Montipora is is closer to autotrophy. They need bits of proteins and algaes to survive, they can not survive on light alone. Yay - made my point. :D :D
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
i guess lol...to each his own! Honestly thats a lil more complex than i like...
we can continue this later u win for now!
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm sorry too rainbow. I just got on a subject that I like. lol
Though, all of the information I presented to the Dude was also valuable to you as well.
Best of luck!
 

tur4k

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow grouper http:///t/387729/thinking-about-hard-corals#post_3413911
Ok i'll give test results soon and is alveopora a good LPS or SPS for aqaurists who have no experience with hards
I'd like to say no because Alveopora are really delicate, but they don't have any special needs like target feeding. Just good water quality, good light and some flow. Alveopora was one of my first corals and it thrived for almost a year before something knocked it off of it's rock and it fell into the sand. It bleached and slowly died after that. Alveopora are beautiful coral, but very easy to kill.
As far as LPS goes, you may want to look at Hammer coral. They are pretty hardy. Duncans are hardy and pretty cool.
 
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