This whole Trayvon Martin thing has me perplexed...

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
There was a case a few yrs ago when a mentally challenged adult walking his dog for some reason started to attack a car with two people in it while they were in a drive through fast food line. The owner of the car took out his gun and shot and killed the guy. Later it was learned that the victim was developmentally delayed. This is a situation, like Trayvon, that you can have a lot of sympathy for the victim, and wonder why something like that can happen. Well it can happen if you attack someone, and that someone has a gun.
This is a good reason for people not to attack other people. That is the reason that lawful gun owners carry a gun. Not to kill people, but to protect themselves from attacks. More and more people are choosing to conceal and carry. Would be wise not to get involved in brawls.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
The thing is who is to say whether or not retreat was an option? Take the basics of this case as an for instance taking the Zimmerman vs Martin aspect out of it. A guy is taking a walk through his housing complex and notices a person walking through the yards of houses looking in the windows as he goes along. He calls the cops and is telling them where the guy is. While on the phone he loses sight of the guy, the dispatcher tells him they would prefer he didn't follow him anyway. He is told the cops will be there any minute and to meet them at the mail boxes. As he is walking to the mail boxes the person he had seen confronts him. His reaction is to pick up the phone to call the cops back to tell them where he is at. While fumbling for his phone the guy knocks him down, jumps on top of him and slams his head into the sidewalk at least once after breaking his nose. Should that person have to go bankrupt on a lawyer for using deadly force to defend himself?
There's no way to create a perfect law but I like to err on the side of the victim. If you were to modify the law in the light of this single case that person who was just out for a walk seeing someone who was obviously up to no good would have to lawyer up when he did nothing wrong and made no foolish decisions.
 
mohawkninja

mohawkninja

Member
Quote:Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395946/this-whole-trayvon-martin-thing-has-me-perplexed/160#post_3527543
The thing is who is to say whether or not retreat was an option? Take the basics of this case as an for instance taking the Zimmerman vs Martin aspect out of it. A guy is taking a walk through his housing complex and notices a person walking through the yards of houses looking in the windows as he goes along. He calls the cops and is telling them where the guy is. While on the phone he loses sight of the guy, the dispatcher tells him they would prefer he didn't follow him anyway. He is told the cops will be there any minute and to meet them at the mail boxes. As he is walking to the mail boxes the person he had seen confronts him. His reaction is to pick up the phone to call the cops back to tell them where he is at. While fumbling for his phone the guy knocks him down, jumps on top of him and slams his head into the sidewalk at least once after breaking his nose. Should that person have to go bankrupt on a lawyer for using deadly force to defend himself?
There's no way to create a perfect law but I like to err on the side of the victim. If you were to modify the law in the light of this single case that person who was just out for a walk seeing someone who was obviously up to no good would have to lawyer up when he did nothing wrong and made no foolish decisions.

I am not saying is nose wasn't broken, but it was the smallest break I have ever seen. I have seen a guy break his nose from hitting a pole. His nose was pretty much on the other side of his face.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395946/this-whole-trayvon-martin-thing-has-me-perplexed/160#post_3527541
There was a case a few yrs ago when a mentally challenged adult walking his dog for some reason started to attack a car with two people in it while they were in a drive through fast food line. The owner of the car took out his gun and shot and killed the guy. Later it was learned that the victim was developmentally delayed. This is a situation, like Trayvon, that you can have a lot of sympathy for the victim, and wonder why something like that can happen. Well it can happen if you attack someone, and that someone has a gun.
This is a good reason for people not to attack other people. That is the reason that lawful gun owners carry a gun. Not to kill people, but to protect themselves from attacks. More and more people are choosing to conceal and carry. Would be wise not to get involved in brawls.
There was a case here where a drunk college student walked into the wrong house early in the morning. She walked into a couples bedroom. The guy herd her and pulled the gun out of his nightstand. After telling her twice he had a gun she started walking towards the bed and BANG!.
Luckily she was just wounded and survived, to be charged with criminal trespass where she apologized to the couple in court. Did she deserve to be shot? Of course not but put yourself in the mind of the person in bed or in the car in the case you mentioned. Neither knew the circumstances at the time. In both cases it just as easy could have been a real attack.
So it was with Zimmerman once he was on the ground. You just went from following what you thought was someone up to no good to having them on top of you with your nose broken and what I am sure was a pretty painful knot on your head.
And here is my final thought on the subject. I think in the long run justice was served. I only carry when I am on the road in my car. But assuming I had a CCW this case would make me think twice before ever pulling my gun on someone. On the other side of the ledger some little thug gangbanger wannabes will think twice before going all MMA on someone. As for Zimmerman he hardly got away with it. He made a mistake that will most likely result in he and his parents both having to leave the region of the country. Not sure what the guy's employment opportunities were before but it's a cinch a lot of people would never give him a job now.
Been fun to have a rational debate on this with yall
Reef (Clarence Darrow Jr.)Raff
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkninja http:///t/395946/this-whole-trayvon-martin-thing-has-me-perplexed/160#post_3527544
I am not saying is nose wasn't broken, but it was the smallest break I have ever seen. I have seen a guy break his nose from hitting a pole. His nose was pretty much on the other side of his face.
Just hitting someone in the bridge of the nose is a well known fighting tactic. Even without breaking the nose it will disorient most people and make your eyes tear up so much even after you shake it off it's still hard to see. I've popped myself a couple times over the years. Once with a ratchet that slipped off a bolt and once with the handle of a claw hammer that slipped off a nail I was trying to pull. There's a reason why I remember it besides the utter stupidity of hitting myself in the face LOL!
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395946/this-whole-trayvon-martin-thing-has-me-perplexed/160#post_3527856
This guy just can't lay low! LOL
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-stopped-speeding-gun/story?id=19830553
Seriously, TX is likely a good choice for Z short of leaving the country.
The saga continues lol. Clearly the man has been a Texan at heart all along.
But they weren't going to let him pass through un-checked. A hispanic floridian passing through this state driving a SUV with darked out windows is like begging for a shake down. Oh yeah, they'll pull you over for 1 mph over 'round here. Just like everyone else. :)
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
So dark tint is a no-no in TX? Everyone in FLA has dark tint. I even have tint on the windshield. No one gets pulled over for that.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
So dark tint is a no-no in TX?  Everyone in FLA has dark tint.  I even have tint on the windshield.  No one gets pulled over for that.
Dark tint is a no no in a lot of places. Technically, half of the vehicles on the road could get pulled over for it. But it rarely happens unless a cop wants to be a jerk. But yes, if they want to pull you over they have every option under the sun available to them to do so.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Haha...no sooner do I walk into the office at work and our front desk girl tells me she got pulled over this morning looking for illegals. Made her roll her back windows down on her ford expedition so they could see inside. I swear I'm not making this up lol. And she's as white as the day is long.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
So, this would happen more in the southern cities?
I dont know about all of the cities in each state but it is extremely common in our city which is in a state that is on the front lines of illegal immigration from mexico. If you're coming in from mexico you virtually have to pass through here.
When I lived in and around metro detroit they had banned tinted windows back when I was in high school in the early 90's. Reasonable suspicion is grounds for being pulled over. I believe the idea was for townships surrounding the city was to send a clear message to the criminal element in detroit. If you cross that border then you better be on the up and up or else they will catch you and send you to jail.
Everybody wants a safe environment to live in. But nobody really wants to know what it takes to get there. Which almost seems like a futile endevour if you ask me.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I don't mean this in a derogatory way but the best description of the immigration mess is a house with 50 rooms and one big kitchen. There's a maid in charge of each room and one in charge of the kitchen.
The house is infested with roaches. The room maids (state governments) can clean as much as they want and kill the roaches in their rooms but they are going to keep coming back as long as the kitchen maid (Federal government) leaves dirty dishes in the sink and leaves food on the counters.
You got to element what attracts illegals or they will never stop coming.
 
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