Tips on negotiations with engagement rings

moraym

moraym

Active Member
For a non-store-brand ring (eg - a Scott Kay in a Bailey Banks or R.
Simmons) in the upper 4 or lower 5 figures, what is a good discount one
should pursue from the displayed price.
I know you shouldn't pay full price for jewelry ever, since discounts are
always available, but I don't want to start too low and get laughed out of
the store. I plan on researching available loose stones online first, such
as a bluenile.com; although I am not ruling out purchasing stone and
setting together in the store to assist in receiving a better discount or
deal.
I've done all the research on diamonds and know all the
ratings/cuts/types/etc, just need a little advice on what percentage to
start with in negotiations.
Thank you all.
(Yes, I know. Don't get married.)
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
Never buy a diamond from a jewelry store. Buy a loose stone from a diamond broker. Diamonds have a market price based on the quality. Expect to pay up to 10% commission and I would advice getting one that is G.I.A. certified. Other certifications like I.G.I. are not as strict and will taylor to the advantage of a retailer. If you had a diamond rated by both that was borderline in color, I.G.I would probably go "H" where G.I.A. would rate it an "I". G.I.A. will always rate the diamond down if there is any question. Same with clarity. That is why most of the mall stores you see will sell IGI rated diamonds or some standard they make up that sounds good and the majority will be shallow cut to look bigger and have very poor light reflection.
I bought my wife a G.I.A certified 1.25 carat, VS2, G color, brilliant cut in almost perfect proportions if you have researched the tolerances for a brilliant cut. I paid $6600 for the lose diamond in 1999 from a broker. I only found one diamond in town that even came close to these specs and they wanted $10,000+ for it.
Get it set in whatever you like locally and I would recommend you use a 6 point mount. A four point mount looks better but if you snag a prong, the diamond will fall out of the three prongs pretty easy. It's hard to loose a diamond out of a 6 point mount unless you rip the whole setting off which you will probably notice if you do.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. I will try and help you out.
 
moraym

moraym

Active Member
Thanks TangMan, right now I'm searching loose stones at both www.bluenile.com and www.pricescope.com. I am definitely only looking for GIA stones. Any suggestions for online stone brokers?
Btw, how long after selecting a stone and setting will I need to wait. I have a couple months here until when I'm anticipating the event, but I want to make sure I plan accordingly so I actually have the ring for it.
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
Looks like you've done enough research to make a good decision. When you buy your loose diamond, you can usually get between 7 and 10 days to return it. You want this because when you received it, it is a good idea to get an independent appraisal for it from a local gemologist. Some are expensive, but I worked out a deal where I agreed to buy the ring and have it mounted by him so he did mine for free. He will map out all the flaws and inclusions on a blank diagram. It should match what you get with the diamond. I told him to grade it harsh and if there was any doubt to give it the lowest rating. His appraisal matched the GIA certicate perfectly right down the 1/100 carat. The gemologist will also value the diamond for insurance purposes which will usually be similar to what he would sell it for at his best price. He valued mine at $9,000.
I can't remember the place where I bought mine and the certificate and papers are locked up in a safety deposit box but there are many places. Just research them. A lot are going to be in New York.
If you find one you like, they will fax you the GIA certification on the ring so you can see the flaw map. Check all the measurements and make sure they fall within the tolerance to be brilliant. These are the ratios of measurements like the sadle. Only about 5% of all diamonds are cut within these tolerances. The other 95% are going to be shallow or deep cut causing the light to exit the side instead the top. Thus, no fire brilliance. It's worth looking for and it doesn't cost a lot more.
Also, don't forget to check the rating for flourescence. This used to be marketed at a rare blue diamond, but it is a flaw where the diamond will glow purple in a black light. Ideally, flourescence should be rated as none.
From the time you order your diamond, you should get it overnight. Many won't ship any other way. Take a day to get it appraised and then depending on how elaborate of a setting you want, I would allow for another week. You can easily take care of everything within a couple of week if not much sooner.
Good luck and if you have any specific questions, you can email me at tangman99me@NOSPAMyahoo.com (remove NOSPAM)
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
Oh. A couple of other things. It's rare but I'm sure you've heard the stories of having diamonds mounted and having someone switch diamonds and give you something else. When I had my diamond mounted, the I expressed this concern and any legitamate Gemologist will not be insulted by this. What he did was put the diamond under a microscope and took the inclusion map from the GIA certificate and pointed out 3 unique inclusions in the diamond from the map and we circled them on a copy of the map. When I picked it up, he put it back under the microscope and had me verify the 3 inclusions. It is a little harder with the diamond mounted so he should help you pick out inclusions that he knows will not be hidden by the mount.
 
moraym

moraym

Active Member
Hmm...my e-mail to you didn't go through so I'll post my quick follow-up here. Thank you for the help so far, always good to hear a few more opinions. Just another quick question, I already know the setting she wants, and I know more than enough about the standard metrics shape, cut, color, clarity, and carat size.
However how much weight should I put on the other metrics out there, such as depth, table, girdle thickness, cutlet, and symmetry. I obviously need to pick my metrics I want to focus on, and I'm pretty sure I'd want to upper-level cut and clarity for better light through the diamond; but how much do I need to focus on this second set of metrics? I'm not sold on my ability to keep a dozen different metrics straight and decide what trade-offs to make.
 
bronco300

bronco300

Active Member
i don't want to hijack, so i hope you don't mind just one quick question...is it possible to find the vendor that makes a specific band that you find in a jewelry store?
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
Sorry. I fixed the email address. It should work now. Look at the metrics on this page.
http://www.diamondreview.com/tutor/4...4cs_cut3.shtml
The next page shows you measurements you want to get close to. It's really not hard to find one if you look and it's worth the effort.
It's simple physics and they all have an importance on how light is reflected. That is why less than 5% of all diamonds meet this criteria. Each has a tolerance range so it's not to hard to find one if you look. Especially on a site that sells lose diamonds as they have access to thousand. I'm not sure any one is more important than another. If any one is too far out of toleracne, the light will not reflect right. A shallow or deep cut diamond will not have any sparkle at all. If it's a matter of money, always go for a smaller diamond with ideal proportions than a poorly cut bigger diamond.
Bronco,
Pretty much any mall jewelry store is going to carry rings from a large manufacturer. Find one you like and ask them to show the store catalog of the manufacturer to get see they have any other rings similar that you might like better and you can see who made the ring. Most will pull the books for you if don't see anything you like and can give them ideas of what you are looking for.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Coming from someone that has purchased 2 engagement rings (first was a broken off engagement 10 years ago, 2nd was for my fiance - marrying in April) I would say definitely go to a wholesaler if you have one in your area. I am lucky enough to live just outside of NYC so I went to the diamond district for the 1st one I bought. I dealt with a guy that only sold loose diamonds and nothing else. I got a great stone from him, then he sent me over to a guy across the street to have it set. Got the whole thing done in an afternoon. For the second, I got a stone from my fiance's father so I didnt have to worry about that. He is up in New Hampshire though and I was a little leery about shipping. I ended up going to a Kay jewelers by my house and found a setting I liked. Then I had my fiance's sister go to a Kay jewelers up in NH to have it set with the setting that I had picked. BUT, based on the prices that I saw, I would NEVER invest that kind of money at someplace like Kay or any of the big chains if you can avoid it. Their markup is insane.
 
tangwhispr

tangwhispr

Member
Also be sure not to buy anthing that has been clarity enhanced or lasered inclusions, where they use a tiny laser to drill a hole and bleach the inclusion...be prepared to spend money...always choose clarity over size...I see so many large stones that have poor cuts and look black...the internet has brought what were previously "industrial" diamonds to you & I....and they are nasty. I would also only go GIA , no EGL or other certs.
 
moraym

moraym

Active Member
Thank you all for the replies thus far.
Upon further research, my firm has associations w/ a few places and I am able to get 10% of bluenile.com diamonds and 15% off Ross Simmons online purchases. Being as though Blue Nile has been my first choice of online brokers in my prelim research, I may have to look more seriously at that option. They seem to be fairly decent prices, plus the additional 10% off and I know they have a great 30-day return policy, allowing time for an independent appraisal.
The Scott Kay setting the girlfriend wants we first saw in Ross Simmons, so I may see if the store will honor the online price (w/ discount) and if not, maybe just grab it online.
If I purchase both ring and setting online, what are the common costs of appraisal, setting, etc... Just want to make sure that if I purchase for 10-15% off online I don't end up spending that money back in tacked-on setting, handling, and other silly fees when I have the two put together.
Thanks again everyone...no wonder men have a fear of commitment...it's really a fear of "remittance" in disguise, as watching five figures leave the wallet is enough to scare anyone off.
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
You can call around to a few places and ask what they charge to do an appraisal. Some might have a fixed fee but if I remember correctly most charges a percentage of the appraisal like 1 or 2 percent. You can probably work out a deal like I did with getting the ring mounted also especially if you buy the ring from them. I checked out bluenile.com and they seem very comparable with where I bought mine and nice features and selection.
 
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