Too Much Biological Filtration?

jmart64

jmart64

Member
I have a 125 FOWLR and I am having trouble keeping the nitrate levels down. I only feed every other day and do water changes every 3 weeks. The tank is stocked with :
1 lionfish (5-6 inches)
1 Emp Angel (4-5 Inches)
1 Naso Tang (5-6 inches)
1 Cinammon Clown (3-4 inches)
1 Niger Trigger (5-6 inches)
1 Rainbow Wrasse (2-3 inches)
I have about 75 lbs of live rock in the tank but I also have a pretty large amount of bio bale in the sump along with the pre-filter media and a foam sponge under my protien skimmer return. Someone recently suggested that I may have too much biological filtration and recommended I slowly remove the bio bale and go with the live rock only. I wanted to get some other opinions abou this and would appreciate any input.
Thanks,
Joe
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Your bioload is right at the max and your live rock is about at the minimum so I don't think your extra filtration is the problem.
IMO you'll just have to do a lot more water changes unless you want to add more rock or a remote sand bed.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
IMO you can never have to much bio filtration since it is predicated on the nitrification and denitrification principle. The more you feed it the more bacteria will grow the problem accurse when the input of ammonia is greater then the nitrification can handle in a specific time frame or the area you have for the bacteria to colonize on is not sufficient for the bio load
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Well, it's not that you have too much filitration, but the problem is with humanmade bio-filter media (Bio-Bale, BioBalls, etc) is they require maintainance. Detritus and other stuff gets clogged in there and needs cleaned out frequently. As long as there's decent flow, live rock should stay clean.
And those manmade products only contain aerobic bacteria (turns ammonia/nitrites into nitrates) once they become established. Mature live rock has aerobic bacteria as well, but it also has minute amounts anaerobic bacteria, which turns nitrates into a harmless nitrogen gas. Capacity to turn ammonia/nitrites into nitrates is fairly large. That's why even with a heavily overstocked tank ammonia and nitrates will stay at 0 or really low. However, to turn nitrates into nitrogen gas is fairly difficult/specialized, and therefore, just a slightly overstocked tank will often show nitrates. Liverock can only convert so much nitrate, that why the recommendation of large, frequent water changes is usually given.
 
jmart64

jmart64

Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2677746
Well, it's not that you have too much filitration, but the problem is with humanmade bio-filter media (Bio-Bale, BioBalls, etc) is they require maintainance. Detritus and other stuff gets clogged in there and needs cleaned out frequently. As long as there's decent flow, live rock should stay clean.
And those manmade products only contain aerobic bacteria (turns ammonia/nitrites into nitrates) once they become established. Mature live rock has aerobic bacteria as well, but it also has minute amounts anaerobic bacteria, which turns nitrates into a harmless nitrogen gas. Capacity to turn ammonia/nitrites into nitrates is fairly large. That's why even with a heavily overstocked tank ammonia and nitrates will stay at 0 or really low. However, to turn nitrates into nitrogen gas is fairly difficult/specialized, and therefore, just a slightly overstocked tank will often show nitrates. Liverock can only convert so much nitrate, that why the recommendation of large, frequent water changes is usually given.
So do you recommend a light rinse of the bio material then and cleaning the waste off the bottom of the sump, or should I eliminate it and put in more live rock?
Thanks,
Joe
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
I think the recommendation is most often - remove the fake stuff and replace with some rock and an addition sand bed where possible.
However people do run their FOWLR tanks with man-made bio media successfully. It is a matter of how much effort the aquarist wants to put into the maintenance of the filtration.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
I sort of left that open, to be honest it's more of a personal preference which route you go. Since it is FOWLR, nitrates level of anything under 40 or so is nothing to be overly concerned about. But I will say it is pretty to 'abuse' the bio-material and not/forget/etc clean it for some time. Lots of live rock seems to be more 'hands-off' approach, which means more time to actually watch the fish. Also, 75 pounds in a 125gal seems like a really low amount. That's really just one large cave. Do you have some coral skeletons or some decorations in there as well?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by jmart64
http:///forum/post/2677637
I have a 125 FOWLR and I am having trouble keeping the nitrate levels down. I only feed every other day and do water changes every 3 weeks. The tank is stocked with :
1 lionfish (5-6 inches)
1 Emp Angel (4-5 Inches)
1 Naso Tang (5-6 inches)
1 Cinammon Clown (3-4 inches)
1 Niger Trigger (5-6 inches)
1 Rainbow Wrasse (2-3 inches)
I have about 75 lbs of live rock in the tank but I also have a pretty large amount of bio bale in the sump along with the pre-filter media and a foam sponge under my protien skimmer return. Someone recently suggested that I may have too much biological filtration and recommended I slowly remove the bio bale and go with the live rock only. I wanted to get some other opinions abou this and would appreciate any input.
Thanks,
Joe
The suggestion that you have too much bio media and that is causing your high nitrates if I understand you right is completely wrong. Your nitrates are an end product of nitrification. With out sufficient bio filtration you would not be able to keep your livestock alive (I have to preface that by saying I am sure you could have a high tech mechanical filtration system to keep them alive). So if nitrates are your problem, you need to look into your denitrifying bacteria set up i.e. anaerobic, assimilation or export by algae. Denitrification in live rock is a very slow process. A deep sand bed is better. Water changes of course and IMO a refugium incorporating a deep sand bed and a higher order of algae is the best way to go. If you add the refug. And maintain good husbandry. What you get from the live rock is a bonus and I think you will be on your way to controlling your nitrates
 
jmart64

jmart64

Member
Thank you all for your responses. I guess I should have mentioned that my other reason for considering getting rid of the bio bale would be to go with a sump only configuration that would give me more room for equipment in the sump. I currently have to- run my skimmer externally and still barely have room in my sump for my return pump and skimmer pumps. There is no room to add additional pumps for UV sterilizers, reactors, etc as the returm area is really limited.
So if I decide to keep the bio material in the sump then it sounds like I should probably clean it? What is the best way to do that?
Thanks,Joe
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
I am sure others will chime in here. My suggestion would be to take a handful or two at water change time and vigorously swish them around in the water you are going to discard. The effort needs to dislodge as much detritus as possible from the media. Do not "scrub" them just get the accumulation of of them. Do this at every water change.
JMO
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2678603
I am sure others will chime in here. My suggestion would be to take a handful or two at water change time and vigorously swish them around in the water you are going to discard. The effort needs to dislodge as much detritus as possible from the media. Do not "scrub" them just get the accumulation of of them. Do this at every water change.
JMO
1.Place some new saltwater in a five gallon plastic bucket, or any other type of good-sized deep plastic container. This is where you will rinse and clean the bio-balls off. If you are planning for a water change, water removed from the aquarium may be used for this as well.
2.Turn off the filter.
3.Remove about 1/4 of the bio-balls from the filter chamber and place them into the container with the saltwater.
4.Stir and swish the bio-balls around in the saltwater to break all the gunk or organic matter loose that is stuck on them. If they are extremely dirty, you may have to repeat this step. DO NOT scrub the bio-balls! Just allow the saltwater to do the job, nothing more than that.
5.Scoop the rinsed bio-balls out and place them back into the filter bio-chamber. A plastic kitchen colander works great for this, but any type of cup or small container with drain holes in it will do. The bio-balls come out, the yucky water stays behind.
6.Restart the filter.
Test for the appearance of ammonia every few days for a week, then every several days over another week after that. If the tests read near zero after this time, it is ok to repeat the process. If ammonia does appear, wait until readings drop back to zero, then wait another couple of weeks after that before repeating the process with the next batch of bio-balls.
This procedure is suggested to be performed on aquariums that have been running for at least 4 months, because the nitrifying bacteria have had time to develop a strong population, and in all likelihood the bio-balls have begun to accumulate a substantial, but not overwhelming amount of DOCs (Dissolved Organic Compounds) on them
 
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