Too much filtration?

[jstone]

Is there such thing as too much filtration? My ultimate goal is to one day have a 150 gallon display tank in my dining room with a large refugium located below it in the basement to hide all of the plumbing and noise. With it being in the basement I could go as big as I want as far as the actual physical size so I could really incorporate any type of filtration into it but is that wise? I could have a chamber for bio balls, protein skimmer, calcium reactor, canister filters with GFO and carbon, a large fuge with a very deep sand bed and plenty of macro algaes and live rock. I plan on hiding it all in a tall storage cabinet and put shelves in it so I can lift the water back to the upstairs through a couple of smaller tanks and pumps. If that will keep my tank looking perfect Im all for it but if it has any negative affects I will need to rethink it. I also like the idea of adding so much more water volume to my system. I know this is dreaming and quite costly but Im single, have a good job, and just don't really care right now haha. I have a smaller tank but my new house has a nice spot for a six foot tank and an unfinished basement. Plus Im a DIY type and this just sounds pretty fun

 

[snakeblitz33]

A large saltwater aquarium is a pretty awesome thing to invest in for a midlife crisis. It lowers your blood pressure and stress levels, which is what many, many people need.
To answer your question about "is too much filtration bad?" I would have to say that it depends on your bioload, and organisms living in your aquarium. Soft corals seem to do well with a little nitrate/phosphate in the system - which is why they are really popular. Most LPS corals will tolerate nitrate and phosphate, while the most challenging of all corals - SPS corals (Small polyp stony) corals enjoy extremely clean water. So, it really just depends on the type of corals you are trying to keep and your bioload.
Keep in mind that macroalgaes will only grow as quickly as there is nitrate and phosphate in the system - it won't strip the water of nutrients or make it "too clean." Algae scrubbers will outcompete macroalgaes for nitrate and phosphate, and keep the water even cleaner. Protein skimmers remove coral foods before they break down into nitrate and phosphate, and can also be very beneficial for coral aquariums - as there is a tremendous competition for nutrients among the filter feeders in the tank and the corals themselves.
In all honesty, I don't believe that filtration in an aquarium can be too much - because the water around (clean and thriving) coral reefs are cleaner and provide more food and more stable environment than what we replicate in our aquariums.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Basically, IMO, I think that if you are going to put that much money into a saltwater aquarium and you want a coral reef in your dining room, you should do it right the first time. You should also figure out what type of corals you like... (soft, LPS, NPS, or SPS) and then go from there. Each type of coral requires different lighting, filtration, and husbandry. IF you want a CHALLENGE and you WANT to overkill your filtration and PROVE that you are an expert aquarist - go for an SPS dominated reef tank. You would be surprised at the color varieties, shapes, and growth patterns - and you will constantly be figuring out how to make them grow quicker and quicker. Some people even make a little money off of their aquariums by selling their aquacultured corals. (Just something to think about) .

 

[jstone]

Im looking at this pretty long term as far as building it. I just recently picked up a 150 gallon glass tank. I will be moving in 2 months so in the mean time I will be cleaning and preping the tank as well as designing a stand and canopy. Id like some input on types of canister filters, protein skimmers, calcium reactors,,,etc. The tank came with 3 marineland magnum canister filers (two 220s and one 350) but Im not sure they are really worth cleaning and possibly repairing. The parts for them seem pretty easy to find online. I haven't decided if I will buy a tank and simply put baffles in it or attempt a full acrylic build myself. I have access to CNC mill and lasers at work so making the sections and baffles to specific sizes won't be an issue. I just don't know about bonding the acrylic strong enough if I try to make the whole thing myself.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Canister filters are great for running carbon, GFO and other chemical medias, but as far as filtration goes, canisters don't do a great job at filtration, and they can, without maintenance, cause nitrates and phosphates to build up. I highly suggest ditching them and actually going with a phosphate reactor to run GFO. They cost around $50, and are well worth it, if you like all the chemical filtration stuffs. I personally like a lot of natural filtration, therefore I use algae scrubbers to filter my water. However, on my next SPS dominated tank, I am going to use a combination of an algae scrubber with a protein skimmer, GFO reactor and a calcium reactor.
That 150 you bought would make one heck of a sump. You'de have to talk to a guy with the handle "Acylic51" named Shawn to get some more ideas on the acrylic work. If you can do the acrylic work... that's the way to go.
If I were you, I would look into Octopus skimmers or SWC, depending on your budget.
There's a lot to learn, and if you are just beginning, I highly suggest reading through the new hobbyist section of the forum and maybe even checking out my "Snake's Methods" threads. If you need a link, I'll provide one.

 

[jstone]

Thanks a lot. I know there's still a lot to learn I was just throwing out some ideas. And I had also thought about using the 150 for my filtration system. I picked it up along with the 3 marineland canister filters, a wet/dry trickle system filled with 20 gallons of bio balls, and several small pumps for $100. Nothing seems to be wrong with any of it. It just needs some cleaning but like I said, Im moving in two months and Im in no big hurry.
Also, when selecting my protein skimmers and other equipment, do I need to take into consideration the extra volume added by my fuge and other tanks when deciding which size to get?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Usually we only consider display tank volume as what we need to filter. If you have multiple tanks on the same sump, you have to consider the extra volume of those tanks as well. The fuge is considered part of your filtration system.

 

[jstone]

Thanks again. The other tank Im talking about that would add volume would be the one between the sump and the display tank. I dont think I want a pump big enough to send the water from my sump all the way up stairs to my DT. I was also thinking I could put a canister filter in there with some carbon to polish the water before it enters the tank.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Diagrams would be helpful.

 

[jstone]

I was going to work on that this weekend. I have a CAD/CAM system that I use for work that I was going to use.

 

[king_neptune]

Depends on how you view things honestly.
IMO:
Yes, you can have too much filtration.
For example: Corals like having small levels of Nitrates, or rather...they need it for survival.
Disolved Organic Nitrates are actually an essental part to thier survival.
Its all about balance. Still...keep in mind that it is better to have a really good filtration system...than skimp on one.

 

[1guydude]

Watsup Neptune? Hows the tank goin?
+1 i agree with most things said.....i believe in over skimming! Not so much to much flow through ur filtration but if ur skimmer is way over rated for ur system and u run it 24/7, u run the chance of depleting any foods the coral might want to munch on! Only thing i can think of as far as having to much filtration...

 

[king_neptune]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude http:///t/389367/too-much-filtration#post_3441100
Watsup Neptune? Hows the tank goin?
Coming along nicely.
Doing some re-wiring in the Aquarium room to accommodate a higher load of power consumption. Gonna put in an upgraded control center so I can efficiently manage everything.
Got a short before school starts up again. Been spending time on forums as a result ^_^

 

[jstone]

This is my first try at attaching these pics. Let me know how they turn out

 

[jstone]

The tank after the refugium will have a some kind of carbon reactor in it and the last tank before entering the DT will have a series of bubble traps

 

[jstone]

I think I am going to attempt to build the entire thing myself. Ive been researching the acrylic process and I think Im going to go for it. The tank will be standard 100 gallon aquarium dimensions. The only question I have is thickness of the acrylic. I was thinking 12mm for the tank and 8mm for all of the compartment dividers. The other question I have is how to position the baffles to maintain the water level in each compartment to a specific level for each of the filtration devices.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I can't answer your acrylic questions but your return plumbing is a mess. That aquarium in the middle needs to have an overflow back to your sump. Treat it like its another aquarium in your system. Maybe even make it your fuge and save sump space. It could also be a show tank or a decorative fuge display. Regardless what you make it, it has to have an overflow back to your sump.

 

[jstone]

Can you elaborate why? And without it do you think a single pump could push the water up to the next floor of my house? I was mainly putting it there to get the water upstairs. I just thought I would put the carbon in there since I had the space.

 

[snakeblitz33]

How many vertical feet is it from the sump to the aquarium? Many people safely use one external pump on their basement sumps to get water back to their display tank one story up. I thought you were going two stories up... lol
If you were doing that original setup with the second tank on the return, the pump from the sump would overfill the middle tank or run it dry. If you constantly have water in the middle sump, with an overflow, you can safely run two pumps because excess water would be drained from the middle tank, and the water left in the middle tank would always keep the second pump running wet. If that makes sense. Read it a few times to make sure it makes sense to yah. lol If you still don't get it, I'll try to explain it differently, or give you a diagram. However, I don't think you need to run a middle tank.

 

[jstone]

Fair enough. Thanks a lot. Im guessing around 14 ft. Like I said, the middle tank was just to get the water up there. I just didn't think one pump would do it. What do you think about the tank just below the DT with the bubble traps?