Total Disaster
- Thread starter calabashman
- Start date
calabashman
Member
Originally Posted by ldb007
How many fish are in your tank? What are they?
Currently the tank has no fish. I removed them, the snails and crabs when they died. I've been recycling the tank for 2 weeks but I'm affraid to start again until I figure out what's wrong.
How many fish are in your tank? What are they?
Currently the tank has no fish. I removed them, the snails and crabs when they died. I've been recycling the tank for 2 weeks but I'm affraid to start again until I figure out what's wrong.
calabashman
Member
Originally Posted by rbaldino
Well, in my experience, there are things that can end up on the substrate that the cleanup crew may never touch, like clumps of algae, food that didn't get eaten, stuff that falls off of rock, etc. It's just my experience that cleaning the upper substrate will cause no real harm, certainly no more than a sand sifting fish or invert, and is sometimes desireable for aesthetic purposes.
Which brings up another good question. If you have a sand sifting fish or a snail that hides in the sand and if you don't clean it won't the "trates" in the sand kill the fish?
Well, in my experience, there are things that can end up on the substrate that the cleanup crew may never touch, like clumps of algae, food that didn't get eaten, stuff that falls off of rock, etc. It's just my experience that cleaning the upper substrate will cause no real harm, certainly no more than a sand sifting fish or invert, and is sometimes desireable for aesthetic purposes.
Which brings up another good question. If you have a sand sifting fish or a snail that hides in the sand and if you don't clean it won't the "trates" in the sand kill the fish?
calabashman
Member
Originally Posted by Cannonman
I think we are missing something here, wether or not you "clean" the sand bed, it shouldn't be enough to kill everything off in the tank, I would be willing to be that there are other problems at hand here.
I agree, but what?
I think we are missing something here, wether or not you "clean" the sand bed, it shouldn't be enough to kill everything off in the tank, I would be willing to be that there are other problems at hand here.
I agree, but what?
sepulatian
Moderator
There should be no vacuming unless you have a cc substrate. If when you move some rocks the nitrate goes off the charts then that means that you have severe dead spots. What is your water movement? What cleanup crew do you have? Detrivores eat all things before they break down. If you have a good cleanup crew you do not have to wory about your sand bed at all. You do water changes to replace trace elements, that is all.
amyannette
New Member
Do you clean the glass when you do your water change. If you do, what kind of sponge are you using. Ordinary house ones have antibactirial chemicals that will kill your benefical bacteria and your cycle causing this type of reaction as well. good luck solving your problem. amy
rbaldino
Active Member
Originally Posted by maeistero
i must agree with puffer.
i don't think you have your cleaner crew up to standard. i also do not think you should disrupt your sandbed.
stirring up nitrites&trates is not a standard practice. study up.
Just out of curiousity, what is it that makes everyone think that stirring the substrate "releases" nitrites and nitrates? Stirred up or not, 'trates and 'trites are in the tank, being processed by the biological filter. Having detritus and other waste products buried in the sandbed doesn't somehow magically seal them off from the processes going on in the rest of the tank. The only real advantage to not stirring the sandbed is too keep from disrupting colonies of aneorobic bacteria, which convert nitrates to nitrogen, and that only happens in poorly oxygenated areas deeper in the sandbed and under rockwork. As for studying up, I've been keeping saltwater fish for over 10 years, and still have a tomato clown that's been with me for all those years. Miraculously enough, he's survived many years of cleaning the sandbed.
i must agree with puffer.
i don't think you have your cleaner crew up to standard. i also do not think you should disrupt your sandbed.
stirring up nitrites&trates is not a standard practice. study up.
Just out of curiousity, what is it that makes everyone think that stirring the substrate "releases" nitrites and nitrates? Stirred up or not, 'trates and 'trites are in the tank, being processed by the biological filter. Having detritus and other waste products buried in the sandbed doesn't somehow magically seal them off from the processes going on in the rest of the tank. The only real advantage to not stirring the sandbed is too keep from disrupting colonies of aneorobic bacteria, which convert nitrates to nitrogen, and that only happens in poorly oxygenated areas deeper in the sandbed and under rockwork. As for studying up, I've been keeping saltwater fish for over 10 years, and still have a tomato clown that's been with me for all those years. Miraculously enough, he's survived many years of cleaning the sandbed.
renogaw
Active Member
couple things:
get rid of that vacuum set up. its mainly designed for cleaning rocks and crushed coral-the vacuum will pickup the crap around them but will not be enough to pickup the rocks. you should really only be cleaning stuff off your rock if there is anything in the nooks and crannies
Rbaldino: as to how it kills things: the nitrogen cycle has anaerobic and aerobic bacteria breaking down things, taking oxygen particles (i believe) out of the chemical setup of ammonia, nitrates, nitrites. aerobic bacteria breakdown the ammonia and nitrites, anaerobic (in the sand) break down nitrates. if the anaerobic bacteria get too much oxygen to them (IE stiring up the sand) they die, causing ammonia/nitrite spike.
get rid of that vacuum set up. its mainly designed for cleaning rocks and crushed coral-the vacuum will pickup the crap around them but will not be enough to pickup the rocks. you should really only be cleaning stuff off your rock if there is anything in the nooks and crannies
Rbaldino: as to how it kills things: the nitrogen cycle has anaerobic and aerobic bacteria breaking down things, taking oxygen particles (i believe) out of the chemical setup of ammonia, nitrates, nitrites. aerobic bacteria breakdown the ammonia and nitrites, anaerobic (in the sand) break down nitrates. if the anaerobic bacteria get too much oxygen to them (IE stiring up the sand) they die, causing ammonia/nitrite spike.
sigmachris
Active Member
He states to doing 10% water changes every 2-3 weeks. Shouldn't that be closer to every week?
If he only changes water every 3 weeks, then he is probably only testing every 3 weeks and another reason for the high test readings.
If he only changes water every 3 weeks, then he is probably only testing every 3 weeks and another reason for the high test readings.
puffer32
Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
There should be no vacuming unless you have a cc substrate. If when you move some rocks the nitrate goes off the charts then that means that you have severe dead spots. What is your water movement? What cleanup crew do you have? Detrivores eat all things before they break down. If you have a good cleanup crew you do not have to wory about your sand bed at all. You do water changes to replace trace elements, that is all.
Right on.
Poster, what do you use for flow?
There should be no vacuming unless you have a cc substrate. If when you move some rocks the nitrate goes off the charts then that means that you have severe dead spots. What is your water movement? What cleanup crew do you have? Detrivores eat all things before they break down. If you have a good cleanup crew you do not have to wory about your sand bed at all. You do water changes to replace trace elements, that is all.
Right on.
Poster, what do you use for flow?