Total Tank Failure (HELP)

[calabashman]

I have a 24 Gallon Aquapod tank, purchased 12/20/06 from a saltwater store that has since gone out of business. I Had the store staff come a set it up, including live rock, sand etc. & livestock. Everything, but my maroon clown and a "nice" crop of hair algie, including part of my soul and wallet died in less than 2 weeks, even though all of my test results seemed ok. Then they told me about alkilinity, and after checking, it was off the scale high. Oh yes, they also found at the same time that the test strips they sold me were bad. I switched to chemical tests and started bringing down the Ph and understood that when Ph came down, alkilinity would also come down. They did and my tank remained constant for 2 weeks, and my clown survived. I have since replaced my bubble tip , inserted 6 misc crabs and a like # of snails, and minitored my readings. Now, everything is dead, except the hair algie and clown. In 1 day my readings went from normal to critical. So, to save my clown again (who looks bad) he's at the top of the tank gasping for air it looks like I've: done a 10% water change, added prime to bring down my readings, and removed all dead animals that I can find without destroying the tank structure. I feel I should remove all of the algie rocks and scrub them clean (I hope). I feel I should do a major water change but don't know how much to do. I don't want to destroy any of the good bacteria in the filter and I don't know what's the max one should change.
I've also purchased a Marineland H.O.T. Pro filter which should arrive shortly. Hopefully it will help me keep the water clean as I clean the tank sand, glass etc.
Should I put my clown in a smaller container with tank water while I clean the tannk? How long can she survive in a gallon of water?
Should I continue to do 10% changes or do a major change?
What's the best way to get rid of hair algie?
Can you tell I'm beside myself. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks so much
Calabashman

 

[tome]

Did you ever let your tank cycle?? Also if it looks like the clown is gasping for air, maybe there isnt enough O2. Do you have a maxi jet or anything to start the water movement. If not you may want to make some bubbles at the surface of your water. You may also want to do a 50% water change.

 

[dawman]

Unless I`m reading this wrong , it appears you set up your tanks , put live rock , fish , and inverts with in two weeks . If so , your tank never cycled and everything has snowballed from then on . You need to have a cycled well acclimated tank before adding anything . How are your Nitrite , Nitrate , ammonia levels ?

 

[calabashman]

Originally Posted by Tome
Did you ever let your tank cycle?? Also if it looks like the clown is gasping for air, maybe there isnt enough O2. Do you have a maxi jet or anything to start the water movement. If not you may want to make some bubbles at the surface of your water. You may also want to do a 50% water change.
They knew that I knew nothing and that I relied on them for direction. The store crew let it cycle for 3 days before adding livestock. Then they moved it to my home and put everything in. I've thought about a 50% water change but was unsure. I really want to keep my clown alive. I'd hate to lose her now. Currently she's a little better. I created water surface movement and I have my pump running.

 

[calabashman]

Originally Posted by Dawman
Unless I`m reading this wrong , it appears you set up your tanks , put live rock , fish , and inverts with in two weeks . If so , your tank never cycled and everything has snowballed from then on . You need to have a cycled well acclimated tank before adding anything . How are your Nitrite , Nitrate , ammonia levels ?

I know that now. They screwed me good. How long should it cycle before adding livestock?
Right now my ammonia is >.25, My nitrates ae: 40, my nitrites are: 1.0, Ph is: 8.3 and my alkilinity is 300. Thanks for your help.

 

[mandarin w]

Originally Posted by calabashman
I know that now. They screwed me good. How long should it cycle before adding livestock?
Right now my ammonia is >.25, My nitrates ae: 40, my nitrites are: 1.0, Ph is: 8.3 and my alkilinity is 300. Thanks for your help.
The cycle is different on different tanks. Depends on how much dieoff was on the rocks. If the rock was cured at all, or just base. All type of things can effect how long it take a tank to cycle. But from your numbers you are in a cycle right now. I doubt your clown or invert could handle going though it, There is a very good change they may not make it.
Though the cycle phase you do not need to worry about the alk, that is more for when you start the corals going in your tank, which you should not have. Even a LFS knows that corals need to go into an established tank. Like at least 6months at the absolute bare minimum. Really should wait for longer.
The best thing I can do is to take the fish, inverts and any corals back to the store, and demand full credit.
Then you should let your tank finish with its cycle, The only things you should concern yourself with at this point is
Amonia - should be zero
Nitrite - should be zero
Nitrate - should be zero
Don't worry they will get there on their own, that is what the cycle is.
PH - 8.2
Temp - between 78 -82, But stable, not bounceing from one end and back. Stable.
Salinity 1.025, or close, that should be stable too.
Water- Should use RO water, not tap. This will help out with the alge blooms.
Let your tank stabilize, and get where it needs to be, Then do a small water change, and start off slow, (Something else the LFS should have known better) Never add to much to your tank at once. Your tanks good bacteria needs time to catch up to the bio load in the tank to support it. If too much is added at once, it can overwhelm the tank and send it into shock, and possibly killing all of your good bacteria. "Crashing" you tank.
Iam sorry this happened to you. Unfortanately there are some LFS with very low morals, and are out to only make a profit. I would also check around at some of the other LFS in your area, The may be one that is in business because they love the hobby, They are out there, just have to look for them. If you have any questions about something the LFS tells you, just come back and ask us. We can tell you if there know what they are talking about, or if they see you as $$NEWBIE$$$

 

[garnet13aj]

Sounds likee they knew they were going out of business and decided to screw you over for maximum profic. I'm sorry about that, that really sucks because you deserve to have your money back, but I encourage you to stop buying and start reading a book before starting back up with the hobby, you can't automatically trust anybody that is trying to sell you something because they may have their own interests at heart. This is a great place to ask questions but you should know that reading a book is probably the best way to get the basics of the hobby in your head. Good luck.

 

[sly]

Most tanks take around a month to fully cycle before it is safe to add fish. If you want inverts/corals then you need to wait for your tank to mature which can sometimes take 6 months or more.

 

[tome]

Originally Posted by calabashman
They knew that I knew nothing and that I relied on them for direction. The store crew let it cycle for 3 days before adding livestock. Then they moved it to my home and put everything in. I've thought about a 50% water change but was unsure. I really want to keep my clown alive. I'd hate to lose her now. Currently she's a little better. I created water surface movement and I have my pump running.
If you haven't done the water change yet, than I would hold off. Mandrin made a good point saying that the good bacteria to catch up to the bio load to support it. Good Luck

 

[puffer32]

As for your clown, do you know someone who can hold it for you until your cycle completes?

 

[murph]

First off don't feel bad, you have not made any mistakes that are not uncommon to new hobbyist and the blame in this case can be layed almost totally on the LFS you dealt with.
My advice would be to dose the tank with amquel or similar product to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites that are inevitable for a new tank and then let the tank age (cycle). This may or may not at this point save the livestock.
While your tank ages do some research into the hobby which you have already begun by visiting this forum.
Keep in mind that a tank will cycle in a month or so but it will take six months to a year for the tank to "mature" before it is ready for any sensitive livestock such as an anemone.
IMO the mind set to shoot for here is that of gardening. You would not expect to plant tomatoes this week and be making tomato sauce next week. Same applies for keeping a SW aquarium. Your lfs knows this but business pressures often lead to the type of situation you find yourself in now. Keep this factor in mind with future dealings with this or other lfs.
The good news is the size tank you have decided to start with will help to keep cost down and demand that you give it daily attention to maintain. When you decide to upgrade (and most people do) you will be able to avoid the mistakes made with this tank.
Good luck with your new hobby.

 

[joshradio]

Originally Posted by Murph
IMO the mind set to shoot for here is that of gardening. You would not expect to plant tomatoes this week and be making tomato sauce next week..
I almost agree with you, but you had me at the "tomato sauce"

 

[calabashman]

Thanks, this info is very helpful. This morning all is the same in the tank.
I'm going to continue my search and remove activities to find and remove all dead-stock. Some snails & crabs still unaccounted for. If they are dead I believe I need to get them out of the tank ASAP. During this process I also will remove and scrub all live rocks covered with hair algie. This will be done in a small seperate SW tank so as not to spread it more in my live tank. Rocks will be kept wet & warm and then returned to my main tank so they can continue their cycle. Once this search & cleaning is complte I'll let the re-cycle procss continue. I realll appreciate your efforts to help. "R"

 

[calabashman]

Originally Posted by puffer32
As for your clown, do you know someone who can hold it for you until your cycle completes?
Thanks, this info is very helpful. This morning all is the same in the tank.
No I haven't found anyone that can hold my clown yet. I have found a good lfs store close by. He services the Bass Pro Shop in town and several other large commercial tanks. He also quarantines live stock for 2 weeks before releasing them for sale. I'll talk with him today.
I'm going to continue my search and remove activities to find and remove all dead-stock. Some snails & crabs still unaccounted for. If they are dead I believe I need to get them out of the tank ASAP. During this process I also will remove and scrub all live rocks covered with hair algae. This will be done in a small separate SW tank so as not to spread it more in my live tank. Rocks will be kept wet & warm and then returned to my main tank so they can continue their cycle. Once this search & cleaning is complete I'll let the re-cycle process continue. I really appreciate your efforts to help. It's reassuring to know that there are people like you who will help. "R"

 

[watson3]

Originally Posted by calabashman
They knew that I knew nothing and that I relied on them for direction.
Welcome to the Real World

 

[craig7220]

Sorry for all your troubles. But like said, the blame lies directly with the LFS. You will find this hobby to be extremely rewarding once you get on track and just being here is a great step. you'll get great help here and its free.....One thing that is important, did the LFS that set up your tank add a protein skimmer? If not, you might want to look into them. Its one of the most important pieces of equipment that you need.

 

[calabashman]

Thanks for your input. No, they did not set me up with a protein skimmer. They told me I would not need one on such a small tank (24 Gallon Aquapod). I did install a eco Aqualizer filter in hopes it will also help the tank cycle. "R"

 

[watson3]

Originally Posted by craig7220
the blame lies directly with the LFS.
Its one of the most important pieces of equipment that you need.
Thats like blaming a car manufacturer when you have a wreck...
This is not 100% accurate..Many people do not run skimmers

 

[craig7220]

Originally Posted by watson3
Thats like blaming a car manufacturer when you have a wreck...
This is not 100% accurate..Many people do not run skimmers
Yea, but in this case the car manufacturer was driving the car.

 

[tome]

Well I hope is staying the same, also if you can find a new temporary home for the clown and anything else living, it would be for the best.