tough time curing w pics

[teach106]

My tank doesnt seem to follow the cycle trends I have read about. Uncured liverock has been in the new tank for 10 days now. I brushed off the dead material upon arrival, tank had already been set up for four days, before the rock was even put in. I check levels every other day, and noticed the ammonia went up, hardly call it a spike, along with nitrates, and now everything is back to zero. I have algae blooms (diatoms, and now the latest fern like growths), and I thought these were supposed to start after the cycle.
temp 80
salanity 1.025
dKH 12
phosphates 0
24g Nanocube plus 1200 maxi jet
I doubt my cycle has gone through, it seems way too soon. What should I look for or do? I think I will cut the lights to prevent the blooms, but whats the deal? 10 days in and ammonia came and went (never above 2ppm)? the diatoms are killing me and coating the live rock, Ive fanned it off into the water to prevent covering the remaining live items on the rock? good or bad thing to do?
thanks

 

[yosemite sam]

Sometimes there is never a prolonged spike in ammonia. 2 ppm is actually a pretty good spike. You are correct, however, in assuming the cycle isn't over. Don't add anything to the tank for 4 weeks or so.
As for the algae problem, diatoms can be common in new tanks. What kind of water did you use to fill your tank, Tap or RO/DI?

 

[flricordia]

THere may be a difference of opinion on this but the best way to cycle out a tank I have found is to add the LS and LR and leave the lights off. LEt it go for 3-4 weeks and then turn the lights on for 1/2 photoperiod and run them fopr a couple weeks. During this time do no water changes. After the 2 weeks do a 20% water change and increase you lighting to full photoperiod and do another 20% water change and you should be ready to start adding livestock...slowely.
Since I started cycling this method I have never had an algea problem and no livestock losses due to water quality.
The problem is people want instant reef without a full cycle. That's OK too, just have to be prepared to battle unwanted algae and livestock losses from time to time.

 

[dennis210]

I see questions here on cycling alot. So I pulled out some texts and books (all with newer copyright dates +2000).
For a new tank using live sand and rock:
pH stabilizes around day 50
calcium stabilizes around day 35
Alkalinity stabilizes around day 65
Ammonia spikes around day 4 - 5
Nitrite spikes around day 12 - 14
Nitrate spikes around day 16 - 18
Diatomaceous algae growth spikes at around day 28
slime algae / cyanobacteria spikes at around day 42
Bryopsis & Derbesia algae peak from around days 45 - 60
After 98 - 100 days coraline algae begins to outcompete other algaes.
So complete chemical and biological cycling will take 60 - 100 days.
above are average times tested for 50+ tanks from 30 to 200 gallons
with no additions other than top off and two week interval 10% water changes.

 

[bonita69]

That is very good info! So as stated many times 2 to 3 months before adding your first live stock.

 

[dennis210]

Yes- and Good Morning Bonita. I visited your HP with the Danes. Labs and Britts for me!
Also water still mixing, watching cartoons with my daughter, will test new batch of Reef Crystals and do my monthly display and sump clean soon. Right now coffe and kid snuggling to good to leave. Gotta love laptops!

 

[teach106]

That is good info, and it is somewhat along the timeline I expected. So then what do you all interpret of this situation where day 10 already is promoting the algae growth nornally seen 4-6 weeks into it and levels are at zero?

 

[ophiura]

What I typically would do, if there is any doubt, is to feed the tank as if you had fish in it for at least a week. If there is no spike, you can reasonably conclude that what we call a "cycle" (which is no where near the big picture, BTW) is mostly complete.
In a tank cycled with LR, it is not unusual at all to go without any spikes. It is because there is no lag time.
If you had basically a fallow tank - just bioballs say and no "living" source. When you put the ammonia source in (say fish, or dead shrimp) there is a lag time for bacteria to grow to utilize this ammonia. So the levels can get very high before that happens. Same is true for nitrite, etc. It is also true if you take a filter from a tank with a very low bioload and then put it on a tank with a high one. You will get a big spike, because there is a lag time for the bacteria to grow to use it. Likewise, if you add too many fish at once, you may outpace the ability of the biological filter to use it, and will see an ammonia spike until the bacteria catch up...unfortunately, ammonia is highly toxic and this is a very serious predicament.
When you use LR, there is already a bacterial population, and it has a head start. So you may see no ammonia spike (if the LR is "cured") because there is a healthy bacterial population to handle whatever ammonia may turn up. If the rock is not cured, you still have a head start...but there is a lot of die off, and so you get more ammonia for a period.
No tank cycles in the same way, really. But you can test the "health" of the biological filter simply by providing a boost in the ammonia source and see what happens. Before making any assumptions, however, do get a second opinion on the water quality by getting a test done elsewhere.

 

[teach106]

Thanks Susan, would you say a clean up crew (snails, hermit crabs and maybe a cleaner shrimp) would be okay at this point? Would they just contribute to the nature of the tank? Or perhaps if the ammonia levels havent cycled through than the inverts would be in trouble given a cycle that picks up or was never completed?

 

[ophiura]

I would personally, because I am paranoid

try the test with feeding the tank and see what happens. If there are no further spikes, and your other parameters are in line (alk, calcium, specific gravity) then a cleaning crew would be in order. Nothing too delicate (eg seastars, brittlestars). If the tank is not fully cycled, the ammonia would be very damaging to the inverts as well. So it is good to be pretty confident on that.

 

[teach106]

good deal, would you recommend what to feed? Flakes or go ahead with a frozen brine? All the fears of overfeeding so I am cautious. I told myself I wouldnt rush anything hear, but honestly, the tank seems so stable, 11 days into it, and things are growing on the rocks like crazy.
I did remove all bio balls and cut back on the filter sponge. Changed out the stock for a live rock sump on the back.
Would be nice to see some things crawling around there for a bit.
Will try feeding and watch for any spikes in the next 3 or 4 days. How long before you would expect a spike to occur?
and, whats to stop a spike from occuring if you are feeding, and it sits without being eaten, doesnt it go to ammonia right away, thus creating the spike?

 

[ophiura]

So first off, frozen brine is almost completely useless

I wouldn't spend money on it, certainly not as a good diet.
No need to use anything fancy here. Just feed flake or pellet food. Pretend you have a couple of clownfish or something.
Let's put it this way, if you overfeed now...well now is when you want to know what the tank can handle, because no harm will come to it if there is a spike. Better now than with animals in it. Some of this is to give you confidence in what you are doing. So the stomach of a fish is roughly the size of its eye. We nearly always over feed. But think about a fish, and put, you know, about as much food in there as to fill up that stomach/eye

I personally would do that for a week, and would expect a spike within a couple of days. I personally like to see some nitrates so I have a bit more confidence that I am not seeing 0 across the board on a cycle. DO get a test elsewhere to rule out a test kit issue.
If you have LR you probably have critters in there that may help eat it. WOrms and pods you don't see yet. Check the tank out at night with a flashlight and you may be surprised

If after a week, there is no spike...or you see nitrate levels increasing...then do a water change and siphon anything you need...and go from there

 

[teach106]

Excellent, wasnt aware that the brine was worthless.
I have two differnet test kits, and test with both to make sure. Did that after readings didnt seem to be what I expected. I dont have a LFS (of any value), more confidence in my ability than their make shift saltwater section.
Nitrates were up a few days ago, before settling back to zero.
Will try this feeding route. Thanks again.