Treasure Box of Information

rykna

Active Member
My constant research has paid off! I recently ordered the book "Practical Fishkeeping SEAHORSES" by Neil Garrick-Maidment. Most of the book contains general knowledge, some out of date, but the breeding and raising fry information is what caught my attention.
Originally Posted by Neil Garrick
In the wild new born fry spend much of the first six to eight weeks swimming in the plankton layer eating. They can consume up to 3,000 particles of food per day(I.E. bacterial soup) and this is one of the main problems facing breeders. Trying to replicate this amount of food in captivity is not easy, and to add to the problems, it has to be highly nutritious and relatively soft in texture due to the seahorse's poor digestive system.
One of the main problems with seahorse fry is the lack of special bacteria in their gut to digest food.(I have had recent suspicions about this) By putting/mixing scraps of dead mysis into the bacterial 'soup' which will be ingested by the fry. This, in turn, will aid the digestive process.
I think that the plankton or bacterial soup is equivalent to the "Phyto Feast" microalgal biomas liquid food that we feed to our filter feeds such as gorgonians. By using this mixture of Phyto Feast with crushed dead mysis not only increase our success raising fry but with adult seahorses!
The other piece of information I found discussed applying topical meds like neosporin on infections. After apply the neosporin it is very important to "seal" the medication on the sea horse with vaseline to stop the medicine from washing off.
The book also noted the the biggest killer of seahorses is caused by Vibrio bateria. Which is treat with the above information. Another way to deal with some strains of Vibrio bacteria is to lower the temperature slowly in the QT.
I have recently come into possession of a victim (from Beth's tank) of the parasite that killed Valiant. I am going to take the body to the biology lab at my daughter's school and dissect the body. What I hope to find is proof that this parasitic infection acts just like tape worms in dogs and cats. These parasites feed on the ingested food, leaving no nutritional value for the seahorse. If so, I should find specimens in the stomach and intestines of the fish. I also collected a live specimen that I think is the adult worm parasite, which I want to look at under a microscope.
I am extremely encouraged by this new information I have found. I hope it will help move towards completing our "seahorse puzzle"!
~Rykna
 

rykna

Active Member
Hi all,
I got a PM from Dive Girl, who just purchased this same book!!! I look forward to hearing what she thinks about this book
 

teresaq

Active Member
I have had this book for a couple of yrs. I just dug it out again to review it. It is very basic, and does not cover any erectus horses. Its ok for the basics, but defantly does not have any detail.
T
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3002619
I have had this book for a couple of yrs. I just dug it out again to review it. It is very basic, and does not cover any erectus horses. Its ok for the basics, but defantly does not have any detail.
T
So what do you think about the nutritional information about the need for phyto plankton; and it's high nutrient levels for the fry? And what about using dead mysis to help plant bacteria for food digestion. I think both of these are excellent ideas. Have you tried either of these?
 

teresaq

Active Member
I think the phyto would depend on the species. Some of the smaller fry like kuda and reidi do require this. This book has nothing about erectus. I did read in those other articles, something about the mysis. I havent finished reading them yet though. I dont really think I want to mix decaying mysis with my fry food.
T
 

dive girl

Member
I put one mysis in my hang-on-back refugium on my fry tank.
As a nurse, I try not to use anti-bacterial cleaning and hygiene products in my home we use just the regular ones (of course first aid products not included). We need bacteria inside and outside our bodies to maintain health, why not seahorses. Sometimes we use products to add bacteria to us to help. Of course, I'm going to closely monitor my water parameters.
Not only is the author the Director of the Seahorse Trust, he is a successful seahorse breeder. Heck, I'm willing to give it a shot.
 

zeke92

Active Member
Originally Posted by Dive Girl
http:///forum/post/3004017
We need bacteria inside and outside our bodies to maintain health, why not seahorses.
Totally agree, i think this was mentioned a long time ago in the "why are our seahorses dying" thread.
I'd bet all my money (i think that is like...1, maybe 2 bucks) that somethign bacteria, or something tiny atleast, is why we have seahorse problems that we cannot figure out.
There is so much bacteria and tiny things living in the ocean, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something this simple. I am going to start feeding my dwarf tank phyto again (i stopped during the hydroid invasion) and see how things go.
Though mine are dwarfs, not adults, i bet it can help just as much.
Also...bacteria, in the ocean, we do not have in our tanks most of the time. We get live rock, sure, but i know alot of people cure or even kill there rock before putting it in seahorse tanks. And who says the bacteria that might help digestion or other things will live in our tanks?
My suggestion, that i am trying as of yesterday, is using natural seawater.
I don't know how "fresh" this is, or if there is anything left living in the water at all. But i've read horses thrive in it, and the water i bought tested perfect. ph 8.2, no nitrates/nitrites at all. salinity was high for dwarfs, but perfect for a normal aquarium.
Do you guys think natural seawater might be the way to go?
 

dive girl

Member
I don't know about natural seawater. I've thought about investing in a microscope so many time so I can check things out...
I'm probably going to get flamed for this but my erectus had 5 fry last Saturday. The tank that I had cycled for them has a hang-on-back refugium with live sand, rock, and macro. There is macro in the fry tank too but the bottom is bare. I've added phyto, extra rotifers, and extra copepods. While I was cycling the tank I added prazipro (dewormer that kills hydroids) just in case. I have nass snails in the fuge too. So far, so good. They are growing. They are starting to hitch during the day to eat. One was itching this morning but no one is itching this afternoon/evening. I've been adding formalin.
 

sueandherzoo

Active Member
Fascinating stuff -- I have to agree that the more "natural" we can get the fry tank the better off we might be. I'll be very anxious to hear about the results.
When I had my first (and only) batch of fry in a 10 gallon nursery I struggled to keep the water clean so I finally moved all the fry into the big horse tank but kept them segregated in a breeder box. The water stayed clean and I was able to feed them easily but they still ended up dying after a couple of weeks. The amazing thing, though, is that once they all died I went to tear apart the 10 gallon so I could clean it out and set it up as a QT tank again and I found one seahorse fry still alive in there! The pumps and bubblers had been turned off, I had stopped feeding or cleaning that tank because I THOUGHT I got all the fry out of there but there he was, outliving the ones that I was so meticulously taking care of in the big horse tank. Once I moved him to the big tank and started feeding him, he died. Really made me re-think what works and what doesn't.
Sue
 

reefnutpa

Member
Sorry folks, I completely disagree with the theories and opinions stated above. Raising fry is HARD. If it wasn't, CB seahorses would be as plentiful as feeder goldfish and cost the same.
It takes A LOT of time, A LOT of money and A LOT of tanks to raise seahorses successfully. As I stated before, I siphon 2 or 3 times a day. Tanks are impeccably clean, as they should be.
Some of the biggest reasons for failure are improper feeding, poor water quality, ciliates and/or protozoans in the fry tank causing itching/scratching/snicking problems and death. Ciliates and protozoans thrive in a tank with bacteria and "dirt". Hence, the reason to siphon daily and often.
You may try whatever method you think is going to work. However, I will stick with my impecably clean tanks and dozens of fry/juvies at various ages that are growing and thriving.
Tom
 

teresaq

Active Member
I have to agree with Tom here.
Please dont use me as an example. I am still learning, I am just as new to this as everyone else. This was my first batch of fry. I didnt have the proper enrichments that I should have. Yes mine died. I still have one thats holding on but I believe this one too will perish. It is thin, and not very active.
This is a big learning experiance. I am hopeful that one day I to can say I have a tank with multi juvinal erectus swimming in tank, but until I learn what to feed and at what stage This wont happen.
 

dive girl

Member
Teresa I apologize for using you as an example, I in no way meant to offend, just the opposite. I meant to compliment and was deferring to someone that had more experience than I.
Tom, my water quality is excellent. My fry tank is extremely clean. I siphon and clean it daily as well. I test my tank water daily. I'm not suggesting that anyone not keep water quality as high as they can and resent the implication that mine is not.
Nothing about seahorses is easy. My male erectus injured his tail while giving birth and this week I have easily spent $250 on live food, medications, and supplies to treat him (that is not considering the time I've taken off work to care for them and to get what I needed). I have been in daily contact with very knowledgeable seahorse experts (my words, not theirs). I take the health of my animals very seriously. This is my first batch of erectus fry, there are only 5, and they are only a week old. Perhaps after a month, I will revisit the idea of not keeping a refugium with live rock, sand, and macro as part of the fry tank but at this point I don't see the harm. Why wouldn't we want to add phyto, rotifers, and copepods to a tank when these are part of the food cycle? My food quality is also impeccable. My phyto, rotifers, and brine eggs come from seahorsesource, I enrich with algmac3500 and vibrance I and II (from seahorsesource and ocean rider) and I use PE mysis. I have also supplemented with Hawaiian lava shrimp and live mysis. I can't imagine doing much more. At this point, only time will tell if my male and fry survive but at least I feel that I am providing and caring for them the best way that I possibly can.
 

teresaq

Active Member
Dive girl, I didnt take offence, i was just pointing out my first experiance with fry is nothing to go by. I am still learning, and have a long way to go.
T
 

dive girl

Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3007210
Dive girl, I didn't take offense, i was just pointing out my first experience with fry is nothing to go by. I am still learning, and have a long way to go.
T
Good, I'm glad. I've just looked towards people that have more experience than I do be it you, Tom, Rynka, heck almost everyone...

My education background is nursing and biology, doesn't help me a whole lot with seahorses. I work in research; perhaps that is why I'm willing to try things a little bit differently... to see if I get different results.
Well, I'm off to make a trek to go buy some adult live brine shrimp. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!
 

teresaq

Active Member
You too, I wont be on much this week. We are leaving for Tenn in a little bit. Kids have spring break.
Everyone have a great Easter.
Teresa
 
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