Treat or not to treat

[one-fish]

in need of some advice recently lost three fish from what my LFS said was probably ch or a bacterial infection unsure as to which he actually got to physically see the clown fish the other two fish I just found dead in the morning showing no signs of sickness both eating well The clown fish color was faded with strings like mucus hanging from its fins no signs of white spots but looking weak and stressed I was told to treat w/cupramine clown never made it out of QT the suction force from the inlet of the water circulation pump overcame it Sad Day! had that fish for 2 years Went back to LFS
next day concerned on the remaining fish ,the female clown fish and 2 blue chromis as so what to do?was told to do everything you normally do down to WC's That was9/23Today the remaining fish eat well show no signs of ich or sickness not thinking what ever it was is now gone ..further from the truth.. thinking I need to be doing something other than waiting for one to die Already cleaned out my 10 gal QT frorm the cupramine. I guess not really knowing what it Was or still Is the best thing might be just to wait it out deal with it if it reoccurs Not sure about the faith of my 75 gal DT researching ich I see the word fallow thinking my best step forward is to reset-up the QT w/fresh saltwater. and be prepared for more small WC's if needed better than just waiting for what I think is coming if it was in fact parasites ich If I do see disease should I treat with cupramine or hyposalanity or should I be treating them all now Thx Much!!

 

[beth]

I'm not sure what happened to your other topic. I see a request to delete it but I was not the one that deleted it so I don't know the history since I last posted on your issue.

Anyway, at this point all your remaining fish seem to be ok?

Give me the exact parameters of your water readings, including ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, salinity, temp. Don't just say they are ok.

Was your tank recently set up? You recently did maintenance? If so, what did you do? I believe you said it was FOWR?

What are you using for source water? What is your procedure for mixing up salt water?

The things you describe does not sound like ich, but, more importantly, it's not the time to panic about your fish. Better to work at getting at the problem then just trying to guess and they way we might do that is if you can just answer all the questions.

Are there any unusual symptoms with your current fish?

Good idea to get a QT ready that is well cycled and ready to receive fish that may be sick at this point. Just don't jump into guessing or treating if you don't know what is going on.

 

[one-fish]

Beth Thx for the reply no worries on deleted post... hope I answer ?'s running aFOWLR 75 gal w/ 20 gal sump 3 fish,LR and 3x small mushrooms water chem has been good 0ppm amm. 0ppm N02 10ppm N03 salt 1.026 temp75 deg.tank has been running for 5 weeks post cycle all fish to date are acting normal eating well no signs of sickness female clown does miss her mate been chasing the chromis around more than usual. I keep logs of all observations and test results Had three deaths it seems to start 8/14/18 when I added sail fin goby without QT it was an impulse buy and QT tank was not set up (1st) mistake 9/5/18 added 3x blue chromis and 3x mushrooms had QT set-up-acclimated fish when I added 3x fish 1 chromis was sucked up into inlet pump released fish from pump only to be sucked up again minutes later by the span of 10 minutes I had to free up2x chromis fish realizing this set-up was just going to kill all fish one fish already swimming badly I netted unhurt fish and placed them in the DT the hurt chromis died in QT tank next morning
(2nd mistake) All recorded test results 9/5/18 - 9/19/18 of water showed no change and consistent except for PH it did fluctuate from 8.0to8.3back to 8.0 9/17/18 I cleaned the sump of GHA scraped glass in sump and DT did 15 gal WC 9/19/18 goby found dead in morning no indications of being ill 9/20/18 Coral beauty died found in morning again no signs of illness 9/23/18 clown fish was found looking badly at that time my best guess at what started this is the temp may have been off a few deg when I did the WC this was suggested from LFS when he asked questions as he looked at the fish didn't think that was my issue since I keep WC water and DT in same room until I tested both WC bucket and DT, one morning after sitting all night. I use RODI water to make up in 5 gal buckets and store overnight w/air stone no lids bucket reading was 71.3deg DT was reading75.6deg never would figure it would be that much of a difference according to LFS that's enough of a difference to stress a fish. stressed fish= compromised immune system in a environment which may house parasites due to not properly QT fish = possible fish deaths I now see how I got here after reading my logs from the sequence of events. now can take corrective measures to prevent recurrence.Plan now is just wait and see. do as I normally do next WC I'll will keep logs of parameters written down to compare QT all fish no matter what problems a rise no Short cuts... I may never know what it was But More the Wiser...Many Thx !!!

 

[lmforbis]

I guarantee the water temp didn't change enough to stress the fish. You are talking about a 4 degree difference but you are only changing 1/6th of the water. It would be less than 1 degree. The pH change you are talking about isn't much either. It could be the blennie or the chromis. Unfortunately you'll never know for sure. Are there any fish in the DT now? I'd be inclined to treat things as if there is a parasite in the tank and go fallow and treat any fish left in QT. My biggest fear, and the reason I won't buy chromis is uronema marinum. This is a parasite that chromis are particularly susceptible to. It is nasty and unlike ich or velvet it can survive without a fish host. You can't get rid of it by going fallow.

 

[beth]

I'd say that a new tank set up 5 weeks ago shouldn't have so many animals in it by 5 weeks out. Adding animals (including corals, live rock, etc.) should always be done very slowly and preferably one at a time, except with paired animals.

Also, I think you said you did a recent maintenance before the crisis? Looking at the way you are mixing your salt is pretty much a problem.

I use RODI water to make up in 5 gal buckets and store overnight w/air stone no lids bucket reading was 71.3deg DT was reading75.

When you say 5 gal buckets, how many buckets are you talking about and what is the size in gallons of your tank? Bad idea to use airstone to "mix" salt water. That is no mix at all and I'd suspect the water used for maintenance still had some pretty raw and course salt content which can be life-threatening to marine animals as their gills and membranes came into contact with undissolved salt. Use, instead, a dedicated container to mix salt, for min of 48 hours, using a powerhead. During that time, be sure that salt is thoroughly mixed, adjust pH, salinity, and temp to match what is in your tank. Use a refractometer to measure salt. Don't use a swing-arm plastic hydrometer (they are very inaccurate). And don't use newly mixed water for water changes unless it passes all of the above I've stated here.

Don't add any more fish for the next 6 weeks and hopefully your remaining fish will be ok in the interim. In the meantime make sure your QT is well cycled and maintained to receive one new fish at a time.

You can't get another clownfish at this point, because the clown that is still alive will not match up with a new addition and will pick on a new clownfish.

While you are waiting, give your fish a good look using a magnifying glass every day to see if you detect any disease or stresses. You can post back here if a problem arises. Be sure to carefully consider fish nutrition and be sure that you are offering high quality and a variety of foods to your fish.

 

[one-fish]

thank you once more looked up uronema marinum didn't see any red areas on any of the fish agree with the temp not being the problem I guess I was reaching for an answer but do see where I can make improvements I do most of the things you have suggested I need to stay more focused on the simple things l Only see one major issue a fully cycled QT tank I do have 6lbs of those ceramic cylinders in the mesh bags I use as biomedia in the sump the sponge filter was discarded when I cleaned QT from the cupramine Best I can do is have fresh equal saltwater in QT just in case one shows signs and plan accordingly

 

[beth]

And don't underestimate what I said about how to mix salt water.

 

[one-fish]

Have been keeping a close eye on fish and have not seen any abnormalities.All fish have been eating mysis shrimp ova and granular marine pellets with good appetite. Do to the time elapsed I 'm inclined to believe that the LFS may have misdiagnosed the observed clown fish with ich Have no plans on purchasing more livestock anytime soon but more concerned of the stability of the DT due to not knowing what exactly caused the fish deaths

 

[beth]

And continue to keep an eye out daily, going over each fish visually daily. Clownfish with stringy mucous may be brooklynella.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/index.php?threads/diseased-fish-pictures.127010/#post-914670

 

[one-fish]

It'sbeen 50 some days since the fish deaths remaining2x chromis and female clown have been doing fine water chem has been normal
salt 1.025 temp 74.5 amm.0ppm NO2 0ppm N03 0ppmPH 8.2did WC few days ago no problems, 1st WCI did had troubles restarting HOBoverflowand may have added to much RODI to the sump to restart system

 

[beth]

Just keep in mind that you can't add another clownfish if yo decide to add new fish.

WC should be with thoroughly pre-mixed water.