Turn over rate questions

[cipher43]

So I'm trying to get my 120 (48"X24"X24") gallon tank up and going and not sure how much flow is too much. For christmas I got two 1400GPH hydor koralia pumps. I had asked for the 1050GPH ones instead but was happy for the bigger versions. But now im concerned about overall flow amount because I have heard you should have 20x turnover but with just powerheads i will be over that and that's not including a return pump which i planned on having atleast 900GPH after head loss and actually have a reeflow dart i can buy for cheap from a local guy.
So whats the max GPH that is ok for a tank that size?

 

[2quills]

There are charts on ther website for head loss on thier pumps. I think the reeflo snapper is the smallest they make at 2600gph that pushes 1900gph at four ft of head. Im only looking to push about 700gph on my system for the return.

 

[cipher43]

I may not get the pump for the pure fact I understand they can be loud. This is going in our office at the front desk and i don't want patients needing to yell to hear over it lol.
So my main concern is how much GPH turnover is too much for a tank?
Looks like mine will be around 30X so is that ok?

 

[deejeff442]

always better to have more flow.you can never get more flow that the ocean has,but you dont want everything blowing over also.i dont see a problem with the set up you have.i had 6 #4 korilias in my 250 and it was not enough.now it has 2 mp40's and two #4 korilias.when i get some cash i am going to buy another 40.so i have a 900 gph pump in my sump and those in the tank.i could reall add two more 40's to it.i dont know if you follow that ? just saying you should be fine.

 

[cipher43]

OK sounds good that's what i wanted to hear lol

 

[deejeff442]

with the way these powerheads work now compared to the old ones like rio where they just shoot straight out .the korilias that disperse water in all directions.that turn over rate think really is old and dont apply .if you want to eventually do a reef i would highly recomend spend the money and get an echtech mp40.the corals will love them.

 

[acrylic51]

I agree better to have more than not enough. You have to remember your looking at nothing but mere numbers at this point. Theoretically on paper you might have "X" amount, but once the tank is filled with rock work that flow amount is changed, so honestly hard to know till your to that stage of setup.
As far as the Dart being loud? Nah!!!!! I've run them quite a bit and I've always had to put my hand on it to make sure they are running actually. Most people generate more noise through the overflow and plumbing. A good think is to mount the pump and eliminate vibration. I bought a vibration dampening pad for under my hybrid and have to bolt it down still. Plumbing as I mentioned is an area that can create noise.
The dart for the 120 is rather large, but you could feed multiple devices to utilize it. The Dart has flow of around 4400gph. It does not hurt to throttle the pump back. In turn throttling the pump back actually would cause the pump to consume less electricity that way. Possible a better suited pump might be the Snapper/Dart Hybrid and run it as a Snapper with 2600gph @ 0' of head.

 

[2quills]

I agree with having the option to have more flow than you need is a good thing. But if this is going to be used jist for a return pump i think its way overkill. You should have one set rate of flow for your return. And then get your remaining flow needs by utilizing your powerheads or a closed loop system. My sump is 65g capacity and the pump that i have on there currently is a 1200gph pump that i have throttled down because running it full blast is very noisy and it creates lots of bubbles in the sump. Unless you have a plan to drive some other equipment with it id look for a little smaller pump personally.

 

[acrylic51]

Agree Corey.... When I commented about more flow than you might want I was trying to imply the PH's or CL's for internal flow. Curious as to how long of a plumbing run their really is??? Again that's why I suggested the Snapper which if you can still find built as a Snapper could work!!!!! Another excellent option would be an Eheim 1260 or if you can find the Eheim 1262. Definitely quiet though!!!!

 

[cipher43]

my plumbing is going to be 4.5 feet tall or around there and only 1-2 feet of horizontal distance. I am planning on running 1" pvc all the way with 2 1" accelerator loc line tips on it. Also the plan is to have the loc lines drilled in each corner because the overflow box is in the middle of this tank. My big hold up on the reeflo dart is that i would have to drill the 40 Breeder i have for my sump to hook it up. drilling it doesnt bother me just that i will have another hole that will have a chance to leak.
If it is the better option tho still i am able to drill it. What size bulkhead and pipe am i gonna need to hook it to the tank?

 

[deejeff442]

when i ran my snapper i just glued a pipe over the top of the rim of the sump to about 2 inches off the bottom.i didnt drill.it worked great but it has to be primed

 

[acrylic51]

If you plan on external Snapper would be a better fit. You want to use flow accellorators which would be better suited IMO to the Reeflo pump rather than the Eheim suggestion. Also the up and over is definitely a bad wrong way to plumb that pump and you ate asking for issues!!!!

 

[deejeff442]

yea i wouldnt do the over the top again.not for leaking reasons but most of the time when you unplug it ,it would lose prime.the tank it was on i didnt want to drillit.but when i set this pump on my bigger tank i will definitly drill.

 

[2quills]

Is the guy selling the pump sure that it's a Dart? Agree that the snapper would be a better pump to work with in this case. You could always feed a scrubber, skimmer or reactors off of it.
You mentioned in a p.m. that you plan to split the return and have two returns in the tank. If you split them right after the pump and ran two lines that would help slow some of the flow. You'd simply be doubling your head height at that point. If you just ran one return line and split the returns at the top of the tank then you're not really increasing the head pressure too much.
You can have just about any amount of flow in your tank as you'd like. I've seen folks driving upwards of 50-60x turnover rate on grow out tanks. But a tank with sand you may need to be careful and not go too much. From my observations it seems like 20-30x turnover is currently about the average for a lot of folks when factoring in the power heads and the return.
I'm pretty much just guesstimating here, but on my set up I've got it figured to right around 600-700gph is what seems to be a good compromise between too much flow and not enough through my sump. Any higher than that I get massive air bubbles from the drains in the sump. Even with the drains being submerged it seems as though salt creep could be a real issue. Luckily I made some covers for my bubble towers in case that becomes a problem in my case.

 

[xcali1985]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389707/turn-over-rate-questions#post_3446039
As far as the Dart being loud? Nah!!!!! I've run them quite a bit and I've always had to put my hand on it to make sure they are running actually. Most people generate more noise through the overflow and plumbing. A good think is to mount the pump and eliminate vibration. I bought a vibration dampening pad for under my hybrid and have to bolt it down still. Plumbing as I mentioned is an area that can create noise.
I agree, I have a goldhamme made by the same company, I walk into the house and all you here is the trickle of water from my overflows. The pump is dead silent.

 

[acrylic51]

If your friend is letting the Dart go at a price you can't pass up.....Why not buy it and purchase the Snapper impeller from Reeflo....All you'd have to do is give Chris a call and he'd hook you up with the part.....

 

[cipher43]

He is selling it for 75 and he already has a new impeller he will give me too. He said it should put out around 1100 gph or so but couldn't remember for sure so he most likely already has the snapper impeller in it. Im pretty sure i am going to go get it i just need to set up a time with him that he will be around.

 

[acrylic51]

If the Dart has the standard Dart impeller it will put out way more than 1100gph.....The Snapper impeller will yield you 2600gph.....That Snapper figure is accurate since that is the exactly impeller I have ready to fire initially. The Dart off the top of my head fitted with the Dart impeller should yield you 4300gph.....
Either way I would buy it for $75.00, but I would double check again with Chris @ Reeflo to see which impeller you have. I do know they are marked and I can take a quick glance at my Dart impeller and tell you how it is marked, but I haven't opened the pump to check the markings on the Snapper impeller. For $75 and the bearings/seals are good I'd snatch it up........

 

[cipher43]

Ok so i went and got the pump so now i need to find out what impeller i have. The old one has a number 6 on it and the new one has a number 8. The new one looks like it has alot thinner gap to it so im guessing its smaller. Anyone know for sure? if not does anyone know Chris's e-mail address is so i can ask him?

 

[acrylic51]

Give me a minute and let me go in my laundry room and dig the other impeller out........