U-Tube Question
- Thread starter rwall
- Start date
stanlalee
Active Member
thats usually the case. what kind of return pump do you have? typically a twin tube overflow will want about 1000gph of flow after headloss to push the bubbles thru the tube. something like a mag 12 or quiet one 5000. depending on the size of your pump you can just remove that tube.
ilovemytank
Member
Not 100 % sure because I've never had an overflow box but I'm sure some of these other members can agree or correct me if I'm wrong ; I think with the "u" tube that if you drill a small hole at the top tip of the "u", then this will allow all the air bubbles that gather in the top to release and never cause a stoppage from air. I think I'm correct, Anyone ?
zman1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Ilovemytank
http:///forum/post/2835003
I think with the "u" tube that if you drill a small hole at the top tip of the "u", then this will allow all the air bubbles that gather in the top to release and never cause a stoppage from air. I think I'm correct, Anyone ?
Don't do that, you are thinking about the CRP overflows that have a fitting on the top that you connect an aqua filter to that keeps a siphon by sucking the air out. It yours is a true u-tube don't do that.
Stanlalee is correct on what the problem is, you don't have enough flow. Does it perform well with a single U-tube? If so, I would just use one, until you get a larger pump.
ilovemytank
Member
Originally Posted by Kube
http:///forum/post/2835023
i think that would probably ruin the overflow and cause it to loose siphon and result in a flood
definately not true. There is no way possible for water to flow out of that from a small drill hole and it definately will not ruin the flow of water. In fact some of the more expensive and better working overflows already come with this hole. Most of them have where you can stck airline tubing in them or onto them and suck out the air starting the flow of water.
http:///forum/post/2835023
i think that would probably ruin the overflow and cause it to loose siphon and result in a flood
definately not true. There is no way possible for water to flow out of that from a small drill hole and it definately will not ruin the flow of water. In fact some of the more expensive and better working overflows already come with this hole. Most of them have where you can stck airline tubing in them or onto them and suck out the air starting the flow of water.
ilovemytank
Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2835027
Don't do that, you are thinking about the CRP overflows that have a fitting on the top that you connect an aqua filter to that keeps a siphon by sucking the air out. It yours is a true u-tube don't do that.
Stanlalee is correct on what the problem is, you don't have enough flow. Does it perform well with a single U-tube? If so, I would just use one, until you get a larger pump.
This I agree with. This is why we learn from each other. I still would like to know more opinions on drilling the hole though. Again, I haven't had one but I have heard this many times. Anyone else ?
http:///forum/post/2835027
Don't do that, you are thinking about the CRP overflows that have a fitting on the top that you connect an aqua filter to that keeps a siphon by sucking the air out. It yours is a true u-tube don't do that.
Stanlalee is correct on what the problem is, you don't have enough flow. Does it perform well with a single U-tube? If so, I would just use one, until you get a larger pump.
This I agree with. This is why we learn from each other. I still would like to know more opinions on drilling the hole though. Again, I haven't had one but I have heard this many times. Anyone else ?
zman1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Ilovemytank
http:///forum/post/2835039
This I agree with. This is why we learn from each other. I still would like to know more opinions on drilling the hole though. Again, I haven't had one but I have heard this many times. Anyone else ?
there is a typo in my response - it's not an aqua filter - Aqua lifter
However, here is a description:
Description
Dosing Pump for freshwater or marine. This unique vacuum pump is designed to pump water up to 30" at a flow rate of 3 1/2 gallons per hour. Powerful and durable function allows for many applications such as trace element dosing, drip system for reptiles terrariums, circulating pump for lizards, amphibians and for priming gravity fed siphon tubes. It is recommended to use Suction Pre-Filter with Aqua Lifter-Dosing Pump so clogging does not occur. Suction Pre-Filter removes large particles before they enter Aqua Lifter.
zman1
Active Member
Here are the two U-tubes I use.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/219888/how-well-do-those-hob-overflows-actually-work#post_1675725
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/219888/how-well-do-those-hob-overflows-actually-work#post_1675725
stanlalee
Active Member
Originally Posted by rwall
http:///forum/post/2835038
It's a mag drive 950. I had to put a ball valve in the return line because it seemed to pump faster than the water was going into the wet/dry...I guess I'll play around with it some more.
dont restrict the return line at all. seems like restricting the return would only make that problem worse. you can overflow your tank by restricting the return line (pumping more water in than is draining down). I'd put in a ball valve after the pump to slow it down (this is fine like adding head pressure) and just run the overflow box with one tube. if you begin to collect air with the one tube just crank up the mag until it doesn't happen.
http:///forum/post/2835038
It's a mag drive 950. I had to put a ball valve in the return line because it seemed to pump faster than the water was going into the wet/dry...I guess I'll play around with it some more.
dont restrict the return line at all. seems like restricting the return would only make that problem worse. you can overflow your tank by restricting the return line (pumping more water in than is draining down). I'd put in a ball valve after the pump to slow it down (this is fine like adding head pressure) and just run the overflow box with one tube. if you begin to collect air with the one tube just crank up the mag until it doesn't happen.
kube
Member
the CRP overflows they have a place where you connect an airtube to it, and a aqualifter pump, with an u-tube style and the power was to go out, with the smallest hole you could drill would cause all the water in it drain out of the tube, then the power would come back on and it would have no siphon and the tank would over flow, I suppose if you connected one of the pumps that the cpr uses to the hole that might work, but if you were going to go that route why not get a cpr style in the beginning, each have there own pro's and con's to each style
please point me to any threads were you have seen this done?
please point me to any threads were you have seen this done?
zman1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2835058
dont restrict the return line at all. seems like restricting the return would only make that problem worse. you can overflow your tank by restricting the return line (pumping more water in than is draining down). I'd put in a ball valve after the pump to slow it down (this is fine like adding head pressure) and just run the overflow box with one tube. if you begin to collect air with the one tube just crank up the mag until it doesn't happen.
Spot on stanalee
ilovemytank
Member
Originally Posted by Kube
http:///forum/post/2835059
the CRP overflows they have a place where you connect an airtube to it, and a aqualifter pump, with an u-tube style and the power was to go out, with the smallest hole you could drill would cause all the water in it drain out of the tube, then the power would come back on and it would have no siphon and the tank would over flow, I suppose if you connected one of the pumps that the cpr uses to the hole that might work, but if you were going to go that route why not get a cpr style in the beginning, each have there own pro's and con's to each style
please point me to any threads were you have seen this done?
Ok educate me. Again I am not saying that I am right but am using this to learn myself. I have predrilled so I won't ever have to do this myself but its always good to know.
I have seen this talked about alot and have heard this from members of two fish clubs I belonged too in florida but have never seen this discussed on this site. Maybe because I haven't sought out this info because it doesn't apply to me.
but my question ( I'm not trying to be rude or argue with you ) to you is:
If the power went out the overflow box will only allow the water to drain so much not causeing an over flow. Now you mention the power coming back on, pumping up the water and the syphon has stopped so the water doesn't drain out and over flows, right ? What I don't get ( most likely from my lack of experience with these, which I've made sure not to hide ) In that senerio the "u" tube would loose syphon from the lack of water provided to them in a power outage once the tank dropped down a certain amount, its the same senerio, isn't it ? I know I'm probably missing the answer and its probably simple, so teach me !
http:///forum/post/2835059
the CRP overflows they have a place where you connect an airtube to it, and a aqualifter pump, with an u-tube style and the power was to go out, with the smallest hole you could drill would cause all the water in it drain out of the tube, then the power would come back on and it would have no siphon and the tank would over flow, I suppose if you connected one of the pumps that the cpr uses to the hole that might work, but if you were going to go that route why not get a cpr style in the beginning, each have there own pro's and con's to each style
please point me to any threads were you have seen this done?
Ok educate me. Again I am not saying that I am right but am using this to learn myself. I have predrilled so I won't ever have to do this myself but its always good to know.
I have seen this talked about alot and have heard this from members of two fish clubs I belonged too in florida but have never seen this discussed on this site. Maybe because I haven't sought out this info because it doesn't apply to me.
but my question ( I'm not trying to be rude or argue with you ) to you is:
If the power went out the overflow box will only allow the water to drain so much not causeing an over flow. Now you mention the power coming back on, pumping up the water and the syphon has stopped so the water doesn't drain out and over flows, right ? What I don't get ( most likely from my lack of experience with these, which I've made sure not to hide ) In that senerio the "u" tube would loose syphon from the lack of water provided to them in a power outage once the tank dropped down a certain amount, its the same senerio, isn't it ? I know I'm probably missing the answer and its probably simple, so teach me !
kube
Member
you are absolutely correct in the fact that when the power goes out the overflow box will only allow the tank to drain so much, just have enought room in the sump to handle the excess
when the power does go out the u-tube stays filled with water. they are designed in a magical way that they don't drain the water out (lol...i can not explain how it works, beyond me, has something to do with pressure on both sides of the overflow keeps the water pushed up into the u-tube.
I think if you had a small hole that u-tube would drain, and would need to be primed again, this has to be done manually by inserting a small airtube to suck the water out.
once its primed it never looses it prime for the most part, i stop my return pump daily to feed and the u-tube never looses it prime
so when your return starts up, water overflows into the box and push the water back up the tube over the u and down to your sump
I have seen many diy cpr style over flows that have the nozzle drilled on the top to suck water out, the advantage of the u-tube is you dont have to have that aqualifter pump running, because if it fails you loose the siphon and you have a flood, just one less thing to worry about about
i'm no expert on this, did alot of test runs in the garage with rubbermaid tub to see what would cause a flood
also if you had a whole in the u-tube you would never be able to prime it correctly because as you sucked the air air would return through the hole
when the power does go out the u-tube stays filled with water. they are designed in a magical way that they don't drain the water out (lol...i can not explain how it works, beyond me, has something to do with pressure on both sides of the overflow keeps the water pushed up into the u-tube.
I think if you had a small hole that u-tube would drain, and would need to be primed again, this has to be done manually by inserting a small airtube to suck the water out.
once its primed it never looses it prime for the most part, i stop my return pump daily to feed and the u-tube never looses it prime
so when your return starts up, water overflows into the box and push the water back up the tube over the u and down to your sump
I have seen many diy cpr style over flows that have the nozzle drilled on the top to suck water out, the advantage of the u-tube is you dont have to have that aqualifter pump running, because if it fails you loose the siphon and you have a flood, just one less thing to worry about about
i'm no expert on this, did alot of test runs in the garage with rubbermaid tub to see what would cause a flood
also if you had a whole in the u-tube you would never be able to prime it correctly because as you sucked the air air would return through the hole
rwall
Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2835058
dont restrict the return line at all. seems like restricting the return would only make that problem worse. you can overflow your tank by restricting the return line (pumping more water in than is draining down). I'd put in a ball valve after the pump to slow it down (this is fine like adding head pressure) and just run the overflow box with one tube. if you begin to collect air with the one tube just crank up the mag until it doesn't happen.
I installed the valve a month or so ago because it was pumping the water out of the sump too fast and there was a danger of it running dry. I wasn't sure if this was the problem with the u-tube loosing the siphon but suspected that was. Now that I know I'll trying playing around with it to see if I can get it working right. Right now it works alright how it is, but I would like to get a little more water flowing through the system.
Thanks all
http:///forum/post/2835058
dont restrict the return line at all. seems like restricting the return would only make that problem worse. you can overflow your tank by restricting the return line (pumping more water in than is draining down). I'd put in a ball valve after the pump to slow it down (this is fine like adding head pressure) and just run the overflow box with one tube. if you begin to collect air with the one tube just crank up the mag until it doesn't happen.
I installed the valve a month or so ago because it was pumping the water out of the sump too fast and there was a danger of it running dry. I wasn't sure if this was the problem with the u-tube loosing the siphon but suspected that was. Now that I know I'll trying playing around with it to see if I can get it working right. Right now it works alright how it is, but I would like to get a little more water flowing through the system.
Thanks all
natclanwy
Active Member
Stanalee has got it right, move the ball valve to the return pump and use it to adjust the flow rate from the pump, you don't want to restrict your drain line. If you can open the valve all the way with both U-tubes in and you still are getting air in one of the tubes remove one of the tube and then adjust the ball valve so that your DT doesn't overflow. If your sump is running out of water before your DT is full you need to add more water to your sump just make sure you still have enough room in your sump to take all of the water that will drain from the DT when the power goes out. If your tank drains more water than your sump can handle during a power outage try raising your overflow box up.
Do not and I repeat do not drill a hole in your U-tube. Drilling a hole in your u-tube will make your overflow very unreliable even a microscopic pinhole will cause your overflow to loose syphon during a power outage in a relativly short time. I have heard people give this advice to many people and it just isn't good advice, this only puts a bandaid over the problem. Probably the number one source of floods with a HOB overflow is having an undersized or restricted return pump. The key to keeping the air from building up in the overflow is to maintain a high velocity of water movement through the U-tube, in your case you have plenty of flow to maintain one U-tube but not both allowing one u-tube to collect air.
Do not and I repeat do not drill a hole in your U-tube. Drilling a hole in your u-tube will make your overflow very unreliable even a microscopic pinhole will cause your overflow to loose syphon during a power outage in a relativly short time. I have heard people give this advice to many people and it just isn't good advice, this only puts a bandaid over the problem. Probably the number one source of floods with a HOB overflow is having an undersized or restricted return pump. The key to keeping the air from building up in the overflow is to maintain a high velocity of water movement through the U-tube, in your case you have plenty of flow to maintain one U-tube but not both allowing one u-tube to collect air.
robertmathern
Active Member
agreed with natclanwy DO NOT DRILL HOLE IN UTUBE. Not only will it cause you to lose syphon it will blow water out of it.
ilovemytank
Member
Originally Posted by Kube
http:///forum/post/2835308
you are absolutely correct in the fact that when the power goes out the overflow box will only allow the tank to drain so much, just have enought room in the sump to handle the excess
when the power does go out the u-tube stays filled with water. they are designed in a magical way that they don't drain the water out (lol...i can not explain how it works, beyond me, has something to do with pressure on both sides of the overflow keeps the water pushed up into the u-tube.
I think if you had a small hole that u-tube would drain, and would need to be primed again, this has to be done manually by inserting a small airtube to suck the water out.
once its primed it never looses it prime for the most part, i stop my return pump daily to feed and the u-tube never looses it prime
so when your return starts up, water overflows into the box and push the water back up the tube over the u and down to your sump
I have seen many diy cpr style over flows that have the nozzle drilled on the top to suck water out, the advantage of the u-tube is you dont have to have that aqualifter pump running, because if it fails you loose the siphon and you have a flood, just one less thing to worry about about
i'm no expert on this, did alot of test runs in the garage with rubbermaid tub to see what would cause a flood
also if you had a whole in the u-tube you would never be able to prime it correctly because as you sucked the air air would return through the hole
robertmathern
Active Member
its just the tube sits in the water on both sides of the tank. As long as it is under the water. The water can not come out of the tube. Kind of like filling a straw with water and holding your finger over the hole the water will stay in the straw