Ultra violet light and Ich

J

jefnmichele

Guest
After doing an fair amout of reading on protazoa Cryptocaryon irritans, it appears as if the life cycle of this protazoa might be effected by UV radiation.
The radiation should cause the life cycle to be interupted due to the radiations effect on reproduction.
Anybody out there have ich in thier tank and also have a UV light running?
What is your current UV light cycle?
Has anyone ever tried to cure Cryptocaryon using UV light?
UV radiation works as a drinking water disinfectant by altering the cellular material (DNA) in most microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, and protozoa) so that they cannot reproduce and cause infection. UV treatment systems produce light (radiation) over a narrow range of wavelengths known to "zap" most types of microorganisms.
Although it is possible that the protazoan may not be effected by the UV light, it is possible that with the right amount of light, or light at the correct wave length, the reproduction cycle may be interupted and end the life cycle.
Just as the removal of the hosts break the cycle, stopping the reproduction phase should do the same thing
 
muggiwhplar

muggiwhplar

Member
UV sterilizers can be effective for keeping ich in check or preventing it from spreading from one system to another (by putting a UV sterilizer between the two), but won't completely clean the system. If you're talking about subjecting the whole tank to UV somehow, this would damage corals and possibly some other organisms too. It would also be dangerous for people looking at the tank.
 
al mc

al mc

Active Member
UV sterilizers have some pluses and minuses.
They have the same killing effect on some of the microalgae that are good for a reef tank as they have on pathogens, like Ich. While theoretically possible to eliminate Ich using UV light it is practically impossible. Reason: Not all the water and water borne organism will pass throught the sterilizer. They need very low flow so that the water stays exposed to the UV light long enough to
do it's job. Most return pumps move water to turn other entire water volume in your system 5-10x per hour. The UV sterilizer feed pump pumps a fraction of that amount through the sterilizer.
I have read and practiced using a UV sterilizer on fish only tanks. On my reefs I do not use a sterilizer.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
I do have a UV on both of my reef tanks. Very powerful light, i believe it is 45 watts and its on a 120 gallon tank. I run it for about 4 hours per day, on an auto cycle on my Aqua pro 3. I added a smaller unit to my other reef tank, 16 watts on the same size tank. run it 12 on 12 off.
Both of the tanks are perfectly healthy and micro algae has been uneffected for several months now.
As far as the "turnover" rate. In time, all of the water will run through the UV light. Yes, the water has to pass slowly for the light to be effective, but as with any closed system, all of the water will, in time, go through the light.
You do bring an interesting point though, and I will be testing this on a smaller tank.
If all of the water is passed through the UV light, over a period of time, lets say a QT tank, with a powerhead, and heater and the only other circulation was the UV loop, then all of the water and protazoan would pass through the light in a much shorter period of time. This might shorten QT times and provide a more complete "wash" of the fish before addition to DT's.....
 
al mc

al mc

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2542586
You do bring an interesting point though, and I will be testing this on a smaller tank.
If all of the water is passed through the UV light, over a period of time, lets say a QT tank, with a powerhead, and heater and the only other circulation was the UV loop, then all of the water and protazoan would pass through the light in a much shorter period of time. This might shorten QT times and provide a more complete "wash" of the fish before addition to DT's.....
Interesting experiment. I would be interested in finding out if it works. The problem still persists that you may not get every single parasite this way and if one encysts and reproduces then you have not broken the life cycle completely. I do not know if there is any way around this. UV lights, when used properly are helpful in reducing Ich, but I do question whether they themselves can eliminate it.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
The water must pass slowly through a UV to kill Ich. As such, the slow moving water is not sufficient to suck in all of the ich from your tank and send it through the UV.
It will kill some of the ich in your water, but it will not be effective at eliminating it. The water simply turns over too slowly to guarantee all of it will eventually be exposed.
UV lighting is often used with FOWLR or Agressive setups, but is not recommended for reef tanks. Too many beneficial micro organisms are killed by it.
 
eaglephot

eaglephot

Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2543341
The water must pass slowly through a UV to kill Ich. As such, the slow moving water is not sufficient to suck in all of the ich from your tank and send it through the UV.
Great point.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
I have done some similer tests with UV on other organisms in regular pool water with some, at time interesting results. Other times, not so good.
Someone had said, something like you cant use UV on your entire tank, I have been using UV lights for quite some time so I understand the effects of the light.
I havent run any tests on protazoa, but i have on bacteria, and some organics.
Trying to come up with something that would allow us to bring a fish home, go through a shorter QT cycle and also remove ich, or the possibility of introducing ich into our tanks.
I have just started with saltwater in general, but have been in the "water" business for several years. Reading your posts and seeing what seem to be the major concerns in this lifestyle, i wont call it a hobby, gets my mind to wondering...
People that know me, know that I am not one to stick to tradition, but rather to find an easier way, and possibly better.
Oh and I wasnt refering to the entire tank, but rather a smaller tank with a large turnover rate, no sand, and most of the flow provided by the UV loop. In a 10 gallon tank, i can get fair water with 100 gph turnover, which I can get with a UV loop.
Its just a test I want to do, and with luck, and lots of it, there may be a better way.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
Ok, here is my plan for my current situation, tell me if im off here, and then I will try my idea of the UV.
I have a 3inch brown powder tang, and 1 inch hippo tang, a 1 inch clown, and a 3 inch yellow head goby.
I have a 12 gallon nano with a 50 watt heater coming for the wife.
I plan to cycle the nano with a peice of rock from my dt. Once cycled, move the fish to the nano. I realize that it is small for them, but its what I have.
Place the LR back into the main tank and give the DT 6 weeks to clear the parisite.
Over the course of 48 hours, lower my salinity to 1.009, while maintaining the ph as close to 8.0 as possible.
After 3 weeks, slowly over the course of 2-3 days raise the salinity back to normal levels.
At the 6 week mark, re acclimate the fish to the display tank.
I will be running my UV on the DT for the entire process, what could it hurt. Any benificial macro losts during this process, can either be replaced or repaired.
At this point the wifes nano should be ready to be cycled again, with new rock and sand and then coral and fish introduced.
What did i miss, and tell me if you think that the nano is just to small. I hate to buy yet another tank, I have no where to keep it up and running.
This is the biggest reason I will find a way to "wash" new fish, without having to have another tank running empty for long periods.
BTW, I do have access to a 60,000 watt UV sterilizer, used for very large pool systems. Now if I could only come up with a way from keeping the fish from getting sucked up in it...
j/k
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
If you place those fish into a 12 gallon then you are setting them up to fall. What you seem to be missing about the UV is that ich spends VERY little time in the water column. Say a fish, such as a tang, has ich. They sleep in the same spot every night. Check any study that you would like, but ich falls off at night. When the parasites are free swimming, they attach to the first host that they reach. It is highly likely that it will be the fish that sleeps right where they are reproducing. Regardless of the fish species, the UV only gets the ich in the free swimming stage. It will not eradicate the parasite from the tank. You can take the long road if you would like. Do yourself and your fish a big favor and set up a real qt.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
How am I setting them up to fall? Are you saying that 12 is to small? I am thinking that it is, but I was asking for advise on the size.
Lets get away from the UV for a moment. I am trying to do the hypo not the UV, that will come at a later date.
I have heard 1 inch per ten gallons, that is very conservative, i have also heard 1 inch per 5 gallons and that seems more likely. That still only puts me at 2.5 inches of fish, but they will only be in here for 6 weeks.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2544486
How am I setting them up to fall? Are you saying that 12 is to small? I am thinking that it is, but I was asking for advise on the size.
Lets get away from the UV for a moment. I am trying to do the hypo not the UV, that will come at a later date.
I have heard 1 inch per ten gallons, that is very conservative, i have also heard 1 inch per 5 gallons and that seems more likely. That still only puts me at 2.5 inches of fish, but they will only be in here for 6 weeks.
Regardless of what you have heard, you cannot keep these:
I have a 3inch brown powder tang, and 1 inch hippo tang, a 1 inch clown, and a 3 inch yellow head goby.
You cannot keep just the 3" powder blue in a 12 nano for six weeks. The 1" hippo, yes, but he would be REALLY uncomfortable; the 1" clown, yes; the three inch goby, yes. Not all at the same time though! By themselves, the hippo would get stressed. To put even just the 3" powder brown in there by himself is a huge mistake. I am not quite sure how you are claiming to know all of this about UV lights, yet don't know that two tangs, a clown, and a goby cannot go into a 12 gallon nano. You need a minimum of a 20 long QT for these fish.
 
keith burn

keith burn

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2544306
This is the biggest reason I will find a way to "wash" new fish, without having to have another tank running empty for long periods.
Go with one like this.
The 12 will not work but this you can use for it and put it away after or use it for fish junk...
And i run a 15w uv on my q/a tank only.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
Ok, 20 gallon purchased, filled 1.023 sg , heater installed 81 deg., ammonia 0.25, nitrate 0.1, nitrite 0.0, pH 8.3
I filled the tank at 4:00pm with 20 gallons of saltwater, placed a LR from the DT, added 3 cups of sand from the DT. Maxi jet 1200 with a prefilter, temp probe, and a 100 watt daylight flouresent.
My water comes out of the tap at 10 ppm nitrates, always, how could it already be at 0.1?
Chlorine in my tap water is 0.5 ppm, to much for a really sick Powder Brown?
I really need to get this treatment started or Im going to loose the tang, and if i rush it, i might loose him anyway.
What to do??
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2546117
Ok, 20 gallon purchased, filled 1.023 sg , heater installed 81 deg., ammonia 0.25, nitrate 0.1, nitrite 0.0, pH 8.3
I filled the tank at 4:00pm with 20 gallons of saltwater, placed a LR from the DT, added 3 cups of sand from the DT. Maxi jet 1200 with a prefilter, temp probe, and a 100 watt daylight flouresent.
My water comes out of the tap at 10 ppm nitrates, always, how could it already be at 0.1?
Chlorine in my tap water is 0.5 ppm, to much for a really sick Powder Brown?
I really need to get this treatment started or Im going to loose the tang, and if i rush it, i might loose him anyway.
What to do??
The QT is not ready for the fish yet. Add fresh garlic to their food. You may want to think about using a reef safe medication to help keep the ich off of your fish until the qt is ready. Beth has a list of them, along with posts from people that have used them, in her Common Treatments FAQ to help you decide which one to try. Add some dechlorinator to the QT and wait for the ammonia and nitrite to reach zero.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
There is no such thing as reef safe parisite treatment
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2547350
There is no such thing as reef safe parisite treatment
That is how I tend to think as well, but there are many products that will help keep the ich off of your fish. You don't want to lose your tang, that is why I threw that out there as an option. Feed them fresh garlic. If you want to start treating them right away, then remove the rock from the QT. Do a big water change with water from the display, then acclimate them the rest of the way. Have a good amount of water mixed. You will need it for changes.
 
J

jefnmichele

Guest
Well, 4 days later and finally got the sg to 1.009. Took almost 17 gallons added to a 20 gallon tank to get there. Thought I could do it in a few days, I thought wrong. Slower has to be better than faster in this case.
No spots showing on Hippo tang, Some discoloration, or white patches on the Powder Browns fins, but no spots. Clown and Basslett are still trying to figure out what is going on, never any spots on them, but all fish seem happy and are eating very well.
Cycled the tank for the first couple of days, but then the tangs got so bad, it was decided to move them in and get things going. Ammonia 0, nitrate.05, nitrites 0. pH 8.2
First attempt with the hypo treatment. Thought I better try this and then move back to attempting the original UV treatment. No shortage of ich infested fish at the local Chain FS.
So here is what I used, 20 gallon glass tank, 20 gallons ro/di mixed to 1.024, 50 watt heater, 1200 maxi-jet, prefilter foam, clamp on light with a 100 watt "daylight" fluorescent, refractometer, sodium bicarb, 2 cups of sand from DT and one of my pieces of LR.
So far so good.
 
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