unkown cause of death to clown goby

[reese]

I have a newly cycled tank with normal chemistry-except the ph is a little low( city water-was told this shouldnt harm fish and I havent had any problems with my freshwater setups) I added the yellow clown goby about 2 weeks ago along with 2 ocellaris clowns after I found out the tank was finished cycling. immediately, the goby developed small bumps which at first looked white. One of the clowns also looked like it had small white spots on its back. after I treated the tank for what I suspected was ich, the clown fish looked better, and so did the goby at first. The bumps started to look like the same color as his body and were everywhere today. I did a water change earlier today and I found him dead tonight. I have no idea what happened to him and the fish store wasnt very helpful. He seemed to be acting normal and was eating frozen blood worms. I would like to get another, but need to know if this was possibly an isolated incident, or if I should be treating the tank for another type of disease. I really have no experience yet with saltwater-and I have been lucky with my freshwater tanks-no major diseases. SO, I need some advice--Thanks

 

[bdhough]

Well it could be a number of things. First i would cut the blood worms out of their diet. Salt fish don't eat blood or black worms in the wild i don't think. Maybe i was that. It could of also been the ich. Ich is tricky. Since you have a 10 gallon tank i would suggest sticking to the 2 clowns and making sure they have a happy home. Its hard to keep 3 fish in a 10. Instead work on buying some cool inverts for the tank. Keep in mind not to buy anything that is food intensive unless you wish to hand feed, case in point star fish. There are some very cool shrimp out there you can buy. A group of peppermint shrimp is always pretty cool. If you get at least 30 watts of flourescents or a 13 watt pc then you can keep some simple corals as well.... Or maybe buy some feather dusters. Lots of options. Just do some shopping and find something you like.
Either way. If you really must put another fish in there then wait 3 or 4 weeks till you do. Just to make sure the disease works itself out.

 

[reese]

Thank you for your advice. I had no idea about the blood worms-I was told by the store I purchased the fish from that it was good for them-now I know.

 

[bdhough]

Well it won't kill them and if all else fails you can feed them. But its just like feeding feeder fish to saltwater fish. Since when do saltfish in nature eat freshwater fish?
I would invest in some frozen brine shrimp and i know clowns will eat dry small pellets and even flakes. Once clowns know you for food then they are very easy to feed. The same for just about any fish....

 

[reese]

You know, I asked the employee at the store when I bought the goby about feeding him frozen brine shrimp ( A very reputable fish store I might add) I feed my freshwater gobies and puffers the frozen brine shrimp along with live blood worms with no problems. I was told there wasnt enough nutrients in the brine shrimp and that frozen blood worms were the way to go. He also suggested liquid supplements-guess I should have opted for that instead. The clowns look really good and I have them on flakes- I think I will take your advise and just keep those 2 in there. At least untill I upgrade to a larger tank

 

[bdhough]

Well they were right in a sense. Brine isn't very hearty of a food but it is a very good food to feed fish. Most will eat it in some fashion. As well as cruising the tank looking for food to drift by. That drifting food could be a number of things growing in your tank if you've bought any live rock. Saltfish require a variety of different fares to maintain great health so the more variety you feed the better off they are. Clowns are hearty anyways. The best shrimp you can buy is mysis shrimp. But it may be a little to big for the fish and they may reject it.... Another thing. If you are concerned about health there are supplements you can buy and soak the food in. I think they are called Zoe and Selcon or Zelcon. There is also a garlic supplement that can prevent certain disease supposedly and will also stimulate feeding. Both are not necessary and consider it one of those frivolous buys but can be useful. Over time you will come to know what is going on with salt tanks and whats necessary. I would be suspect to what anyone tells you unless you hear it twice or three times... Thats just me though

 

[reese]

Ok, now Im becoming upset-I came home this evening and found one of the clowns hovering on the bottom of the tank treading as fast as her little fins could go. She is now covered with white patches on her back and mouth and her fins look tattered. It almost looks like her slime coat is cloudy and is "peeling". She didnt eat flake food tonight either. The other one looks like she's getting it too-its starting on her back. I just treated the tank with organi-cure which I believe covers many diseases. I am contemplating taking the fish in to have a scraping done to determine what it is, but I dont want to stress the fish out more. Is it possible those garlic supplements would help get her to eat-even when she's ill? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated-Thank!

 

[reese]

I was reading about "flukes" and it sounds like this may be the culprit-possible? I also read that I can take a cotton swab over the fish to get a sample for a biopsy instead of taking the whole fish-I really want to find out for sure and dont want to harm the fish anymore than this outbreak has.

 

[bdhough]

Hmmm. Disease is not my forte... Try posting this in the disease forum. Beth and Terry B are good with disease i think Terry B is.... Sounds like a fungal parasite of some sort. I don't know about flukes. I guess it could be. Be careful treating your tank with meds. They have a tendency to do more harm to the tank than good. Do you have any inverts? If so then thats what you need to worry about. If not then try and treat the water. Just remember if you use any kind of copper based med that it will permanently flaw your tank so you can not keep inverts or corals.... Like i said check out the disease forum and read FOR SURE the sticky at the top of the forum by Beth. It's about QT's and basic disease things. Did your clown goby die with this stuff on its body? One of your fish had to have brought it into the tank. Which fish did you buy first?

 

[reese]

I bought them all at the same time from the same filtration system(so I was told) The clown died and the other is looking bad. I am frantically trying to set up a quarantine tank to med the fish-I hope to save her. It looks like its a secondary bacterial infection from the ich-I took the dead one into be looked at. My water chemistry shot up and I think getting her out of there, even into new water, is my best chance. I dont think a water change is going to help-my ammonia and nitrite levels are really bad today. I do have some small crabs, and the organi-cure did not hurt them, it only has a small amount of copper. Wish me luck!

 

[bdhough]

Don't say i didn't warn you about the copper
Sounds Like you may have shocked the system by adding 3 fish to it all at once. That may have been to much for the bacteria to handle and thus why things shot up. Its very possible then if you have alot of ammonia that your fish are burning and thus why they have their slime coats peeling off. Its their burning skin. How much live rock do you have. I noticed you said your tank was newly cycled how long did you wait?

 

[reese]

I talked to a lady I know at a small mom and pop fish store ( they mainly do set ups and cleanings for offices) and she believed it may have been the treatment that made the ammonia shoot up since it kills everything. Her advise is just like yours-and I appreciate every bit of it. Anyway, Ive now lost all my fish. She also suggested adding one fish at a time instead of all at once, like you mentioned. Oh how costly it is when you make mistakes! I have about 4 pounds of live rock that is probably going to die off and I now have to wait until the tank cycles again. Im not sure what to do with the crabs-I may just take them back to the store where I purchased them from so I dont kill them. My tank had cycled for about 5 weeks with the live rock. I think after my tank settles down I will add 1 damsel and watch very closely. Eventually I will add only one clown and be happy with that! Thats all I can afford now anyway

 

[bdhough]

Well if you can afford it get more rock in there. The more you have the better the rock can handle things like this. Your rock is your filtration. Even if its crappy base rock get it in there. It will eventually have all the life your live rock has. You could add 2 fish at a time like your clowns but like i said you probably need more live rock to make sure nothing goes wrong with the levels. What you could do is buy a clown once the levels go down, wait a week and then get him a partner. There you go....
Btw you never mentioned you treated the tank, with what?

 

[reese]

Only the organi-cure. Now Ive started adding the liquid live bacteria to get the levels back down. Crabs are out-there is nothing in the tank now but the live rock which is crawling-Ive never noticed it before-feather dusters, and what looks like a small anemone. I hope it all survives. Ill pick up some more live rock today-thats not the expensive part. Losing about $70 in fish almost all at once hurts-and I know thats not much considering what others have lost. Im going to try to add a damsel next week as long as the ammonia is gone.

 

[rolangunslinger]

Hello Reese,
Sorry to hear about your losses but I am glad to see that you are disturbed about them. Too often in this hobby you hear people say that they don't mind losing a fish or two because they were cheap.
Seems like you really care about your fish and are hurt by the losses, and are working hard to prevent this in the future.
I congratulate you and wish you the best of luck in the future.
Hope everything works out and you get the tank straight, keep us informed.
Kevin

 

[reese]

Thank you so much-I appreciate the positive feedback. Even though I know I am trying very hard to do everything right, I still feel horrible that everything died. Its good experience I guess. Doesn't this make freshwater look like a breeze? Hopefully I can start over soon and not kill anything! The ammonia is still at 1.0, so it wont be for a bit yet.