unsociable clownfish? (2 questions)

[moonrs]

Hello, everyone, I'm new to this forum and to saltwater fishkeeping. I've had my 30 gallon reef tank up for about 4 months, with moderate success. I started with live rock, 3 yellow-tailed Blue Damsels, and eventually added a couple of clownfish(A. Percula's or Ocellaris, I think) a sand-shifting starfish, brown-stripe goby, a banded coral shrimp, and 5 hermit crabs; they all seemed to thrive. Each time I tried to keep any type of soft coral, disc, or anemone, however, it either died outright or, as in the case of the first small bubble tip anemone I got, slowly declined over several weeks until it died. I was able to iron out a few water-quality problems, but not before I lost a pulsing xenia, a yellow leather, and several disc-covered rocks. Everything's doing fine now, except for one problem. When I initially purchased the bubble-tip anemone, the two clownfish quickly took up residence(within a day). They stayed, vainly trying to stimulate the doomed amemone, even after it was obvious (to me) that it was in really bad shape. Eventually, however, even the loyal clownfish left the ailing anemone, which died soon after. After losing the anemone, I waited almost two months two purchase another anemone, which the fish store was unable to positively identify for me. It's got brownish tenticles, with the the oral disk being light-purple, and at least 8" across! I think it may be a sabae or a carpet. The problem I'm having is, after more than almost two weeks, the clownfish are totally ignoring the anemone. How do I get the clownfish to get interested in the new anemone? They show no interest in even going near it. Also, the anemone has yet to attach itself to anything. It's not rolling around the tank and it's opened up fully (after a rough first few days). The anemone has chosen a spot that is not as wide as it's body, so each edge of the anemone is either against a rock or the tank glass. It appears healthy, but the foot is floating just above or lightly resting on the sand. So, the second question is; Is it bad for an anemone to remain unattached to anything? Any help you could give me would be of great help. Thanks

 

[dockery07]

It sounds like you have a condy anemone. What type of lights do you have? How are your water prams? You have not told us much about the tank. An anemone needs a well established tank with good lighting.

 

[moonrs]

Well, I have an Aqualight double linear strip, with 96 watt Actinic and 96 watt 10,000K lamps, so the lighting should be good. The temperature is 82 degrees, the SG = 1.024, PH = 8.4, Alk = norm, Nitrites = 0.1, Nitrates = 20 (YIKES!!), and ammonia = 0. Obviously the nitrates are at critical levels. I'm going to do a 10% water change immediately and recheck the perameters tomorrow. As far as my anemone being a condy, I'm not sure, because it seems to exhibit some of the characteristics of that species, but not all. For example, ever since an initial move(due to water current) from the first spot I place the anemone, it has not shown any desire to move from it's selected perch in the sand. Also, my xoanthids and my discs are doing fine. That is, the anemone doesn't seem to care about the other occupants of the tank. The only fish that actuallly swin near it at all is one of the blue damsels. It almost seems like he's trying to dare the anemone to sting him. Also, the brown stripe goby's lair has an opening that nearly comes out from underneath the anemone. The anemone could still be a condy, but it looks different from the the example I was able to look at. Thanks for the quick response, btw. So, if my anemone is a condy, the clowns will probably never be attracted to the anemone, is that correct? Thanks again

 

[moonrs]

My anemone is much wider than that, although the tenticles are a similar color. My anemone's tenticles don't have the purple tips, however. How much do the condy anemones vary in size, and how large do they grow? If my anemone is a condy, then I must've bought a large, full grown one. I'll have to find a camera and take a picture of it, so you guys can have a better idea what I have... Thanks for the picture.

 

[broncofish]

HEy melody how is your wee little BTA, I would love to hear how she's coming along? Thanks for the complement, but I really only know a little about anemones, and am trying very very hard to learn more, the Staff at UC Davis has been helping me undestand a lot, but just for the record to all newbies who read this. There was some bunk information going around that anemones don't need light at all. This was published by somebody very well respected in the SWF hobby, and I've seen it quotted on another board several times now, and it could not be more flawed information. Moonr I will post some variouse pictures, of the differenet anemones it could be, let me open my picture folder and see what I got. I will start with my Ritteri

 

[broncofish]

This is the only one I can find of a pink Malu, or sometimes called a pink sebae

 

[broncofish]

I hope Broomer does not mind me doing this...but here is his Sebae, and it looks awesome, probably my favorite I've seen in a tank.

 

[broncofish]

Two BTA's after they were cut, placed back into the tank(essentially fragging) do not try this at home kids...just so you know both anemones are doing well.

 

[broncofish]

Another BTA (this one is mine)

 

[broncofish]

Can't remember whose anemone, but it is an LTA

 

[broncofish]

By the way false percs have 2 natural hosts...Ritteri and Carpet anemones. They will host in others...but it is my opinin that when they are willing to host in BTA's etc... they would be just as willing to host in a hairy shroom etc....I've also heard that they prefer the RoseBTA's because their apearence is similar to the Ritteri(that could be garbage though I've yet to see proof that they visually distinguish their anemone hosts). Either way the best quote I've heard about anemones is this. "When you KNOW and UNDERSTAND all the reasons to not have an Anemone, is when you might be close to ready to have one" Make sure you feed them 2-3 times a week, and I prefer krill or lancefish(silversides)

 

[broncofish]

Moonrs one more thing, and I hope I don't sound soap boxy....4 months is not long enough to own an anemone, they are mostly comprised of water, the quality of your water is the quality of their body, if your alk(buffering capacity) is low and your tank is prone to PH swings at night, then you anemone is prone to PH swings inside its body, same goes for trites, trates, calcium etc...Also if your Anemone is a condy or a ritteri, don't be suprised if it eats a few residents.

 

[ross]

Hey Moonrs,
What is the best fish store in SA. I just moved here am starting my first sw.

 

[moonrs]

Thanks for all the photos, Bronco. My anemone looks almost exactly like your first picture, except that the white tips on the tentacles are not nearly so well defined on mine. It's also just slightly lighter in color. That said, I realize my tank has not been established for very long; it probably was too early to add anemones. It's so hard to be patient! However, since I have already plunged in and bought care-intensive animals, am I doomed to lose them all? I'm doing my best to maintain good water quality. I feed the fish twice a day and feed the anemone once or twice a week. Once every week or so, I add trace elements(coral-vite, ChromaPlex) and monthly I add Tech-I, an iodine supplament. Every week or so I do a 10% water change. I keep the temp about 82 degrees, all the time. Everything seems to be very healthy and active. One more thing; I purchased a Red General starfish (Protoraster linchii), which this website sells. It was another case of doing inadequate (meaning none) research, so I brought it home without realizing it was not considered reefsafe. It's already tried to eat my zooanthids, but only took out one stalk, thank goodness. At that point, I started watching where he goes. Because he's so slow, I'm usually able to knock him off the rock whenever he gets close to any other tank occupants. Should I try get rid of him or just keep watching the tank to make sure he doesn't eat something? Thanks
Ross: My favorite fish store in San Antoniois is Alamo Aquatics, which is just off loop 410 and Bandera. Part of that has to do with where I live and it's proximity to me. You didn't mention what part of San Antonio you live in; there may be one that you like better closer than Alamo Aquatics. Anyway, the name of another store (I'm not sure where it is in San Antonio) is Aquarium Sales and Service. Also, here's a link to some pet/fish stores here in San Antonio you may want to look up.
http://www.newpronet.com/texas/sanan.../pet_shops.htm

 

[broncofish]

Originally posted by Moonrs
Thanks for all the photos, Bronco. My anemone looks almost exactly like your first picture, except that the white tips on the tentacles are not nearly so well defined on mine. [/url]
If you have a Ritteri I don't want to say for sure you are doomed...but they are extremely difficult to take care of, but the good news is your percs should come around to it eventually. Feed it often. Right now I feed it 2 pieces of krill every other day, and 1 silverside randomly throughout the week. GIve your anemone very intense light, and lot of random(key word RANDOM not STEADY) water movement, a wave maker or some sort of surge dievice would work nicely. I have mine under 225w of vho in a 29g, and will be moving him to my 90 were he will be right under no less than 500w of MH and 220w of VHO. Keep a very very close eye on him, and your water quality, I wish you could post a pic of your anemone, and also try to trade in that star, or find a hobbyist in your area that wants one.
Melody, thats awesome about your anemone surviving I was worried it was not going to make it, if it is bleached and it comes back and eats food that's outstanding. The anemone studying thing is kind of a hobby/business venture. I want to set up an anemone propogation system, right now of course it would all have to be based on fragging(like in that picture) or splitting(constant water changes seem to be the most successful method for making that happen on a regular basis) The Ritteri was a mercy save, but it already tried to spawn in my tank(all sperm no eggs) . As far as the anemone fragging/cutting so far I've only seen it done on a carpet, bta, rbta. Anthony Calfo has published stuff about it before I believe but all of my experiance with it has been basicaly first hand. I've also heard of people running a thick gauge fishing string through an anemone and then putting pressure on the line..forcing the Anemone to split. I am still studying about what I want to do and I am going to definately start with RBTA's(because of their captive bred availability)probably in a 55g.

 

[brewercm]

Ross,
Another nice store with knowledgable staff is just up 281 in Bulverde. Just off of Hwy 46, a place called CB Pets. The owner is in the process of adding new salt tanks so still just building business. One of the types that's not just trying to sell things to make money.
FYI, there's also a local board/club like this one to the area. If you email me I'll give you the link if you're interested. We're not allowed to post them on this board though.
brewerch66@aol.com
Cliff

 

[scuba steveo]

my bta & true percs

 

[moonrs]

Finally, here's a picture of my anemone, and tank.

 

[moonrs]

and the tank...

 

[broncofish]

I am going to guess LTA judging from that picture. Looks a little bleached. Has it been eating? Your clowns may never go into it because it is not one of it's natural hosts.