Unusual situation...

[adonis311]

I have a few issues with my 8 month old 75 gal. I hope you smart people ( you know who you are) can help me out. I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone at my lfs.
1. I can't elevate my ph above 8.2. I have gone through a month of buffering with Kent's and it went up from 7.8. I have tons of movement on the water surface.
2. Although my ph is low, my alkalinity is high, 11-12. How can this be? Too much buffer?
3. It's apparent that I have a lot of dissolved organics, as I have algae and cyno popping up everywhere (my tang loves the algae but not my corals). I have a coat of brown algae over everything. I have been using the biofuel to curb my organics but even though it seems to be working I'm not seeing improvement over the past month.
Here is what I'm doing:
Weekly 10 gal water changes, ph buffer, biofuel, amino dosing, 6 hours of light for the corals with duel metal halides. Filtration is a reef octo protein skimmer with an emperor 900 and uv sterilizer.
What is missing?

 

[geoj]

Did you do a co2 test?

 

[bang guy]

First, why are you targeting 8.2? Chasing this number has probably crashed more tank than all other reasons combined. As long as the daily average is between 8.0 and 8.5 and is fairly stable then it's not something to stress over.
Stop the buffer if Alkalinity is already high. Buffer is not appropriate to raise PH other than a very temporary bump. It should normally only be used when Alkalinity is low.
What are the other perameters? Calcium, Magnesium, Salinity, and temperature?
How much waterflow?
Overfeeding is also a likely reason for a low PH.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Take off your glass tops and use a protein skimmer along with what bang guy suggested. I second his advice.

 

[adonis311]

I wasn't targeting 8.2. My target is 8.6, where most of my corals prefer. I just can't get to that. It's stable at 8.2 which I feel is a bit low for a reef tank. The fish (4 chromis, 2 clowns, tang, gramma, and goby) get a cube of spurlina once every other day. Is that too much?
I don't know the proper way to gauge waterflow but I can say that the top of the water is a decent churn (not enough for foam).
I had my magnesium tested a few weeks ago and it was deficient. I think it was at 11. I will have the rest of the perimeters you asked for tested tomorrow.
Would it help if I removed the chromis from the tank?

 

[reefkprz]

if your tank is stable at 8.2 your set. I dont know why your chasing the nearly impossible 8.6.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Removing fish will not make your pH go up.
8.2 IS sufficient for a reef, as long as it is stable, which it is.
Getting your pH up to 8.6 and forcing it to stay there will end up crashing your tank.
Best of luck.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by adonis311 http:///t/391493/unusual-situation#post_3472188
I wasn't targeting 8.2. My target is 8.6, where most of my corals prefer.
I think it is a really bad idea to try to target 8.6. Where you are is just fine as others have mentioned.
It problem is that Calcium and Alkalinity will want to precipitate at that PH. It can be done but it's such a fine line. If you have a precipitation event it will harm your corals.
Sorry to discourage you but I don't want you crashing your tank for just a number. It concerns me that you are raising your Alkalinity with a buffer but you don't know what your Alkalinity level is. That's a bad situation all by itself.

 

[geoj]

Yes, you guys are very right and I agree with what has been said.
I would sill do the co2 experiment to see where the tank sits as to gas exchange. I mean why would you not want to know... :%%:

 

[adonis311]

Looks like co2 is reading at 2.1?
Do you think that my filtration is insufficient? Would this be the reason for all the algae and cyano?

 

[geoj]

What I was going to recommend is a pH test to determine if you can lower co2. What you would need to do is have your own reliable way to test pH like a meter. You would need to take the test about the same time because it is the difference in the results you want to know. You take three readings of the tank water when at its lowest pH, one straight from the tank, second would be to take a water sample and then aerate it in the room the tank is in and test pH, and third to take a sample out side and aerate it and test pH.
So if the pH in the test that is aerated in the room is higher then the tanks pH that tells you that if you add more aeration to the tank you can get the pH to come up some. If the sample that was aerated outside in the fresh air goes up then you know that the house air has more co2 and you can improve the pH if you were able to bring more fresh air into the rooms the tank is in.
This will help you decide if it is feeding related or just not enough water aeration...

 

[adonis311]

Sounds like a party. I will do this and get back to yous all.
Thank you all for your interest in my dilemma.

 

[adonis311]

So I have another suggestion. If I were to reduce my stock to just the tang and pair of clownfish, I'm assuming that would solve the issue with the dissolved organics, thus removing the algae and cyano problems. Would this be a correct assumption?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Removing fish from your system will reduce the bioload and you won't have to feed as much - but if you are stocking your tank with the proper amount of fish and having problems with cyanobacteria and hair algae then you are having filtration issues. You will need to increase your filtration capacity by using a skimmer, algae scrubber, phosphate reactor or you could do continuous small water changes and siphon off the rocks, detritus and other debris in the tank as needed.

 

[geoj]

So I have another suggestion. If I were to reduce my stock to just the tang and pair of clownfish, I'm assuming that would solve the issue with the dissolved organics, thus removing the algae and cyano problems. Would this be a correct assumption?In theory yes, in practice no. The reason is you have to feed the fish and corals, and the algae can thrive in the same environment. I have had times where algae and cyano was clear of the tank and did it using competition and manual filtration. This does take a long time but if you keep at it you will bet the pest. Bio-pellets did help clear the algae but over time I feel it added to the cyano. So next for me will be vodka or vinegar carbon dosing and many have had success and the info is out there. In the end it is a combo of all methods that seems to work best for me.