urgent ballast questions

[ren]

Amps do not equal Watts? Ballasts outputs are measured in amps- how much current they can provide not watts the bulbs are measured in watts - how much work they can do. Remember the formula - W=V*I (Watts = Voltage times Current). Hince Amps directly affect the wattage for lights. Equal no but half of the formula yes.
Hello lights push thier own and market it up pretty good however :
"Thus, EACH ballast is capable of running EITHER one, two, three or four lamps if the 440 watt limit is adhered to" - a quote from thier site on thier ballasts. Why is this? Is it due to the amperage capicity of thier ballasts?
Now about the 'flicker rates'? Like I said - i'm not a lighting expert but can't VHO's be ran on magnetic ballasts also? I'm probabally wrong here but i thought that the electronic ballasts were to lessen the 'flicker' which is caused naturally from AC current? Thus the THD% rating for the various ballasts?

 

[ramey70]

Yes VHOs can be ran on a magnetic ballast but it is still a VHO magnetic ballast and not a NO magnetic ballast. I know that the hello lights ballast can run up to 4 bulbs as long as the 440 watt maximum is adhered to but by taking the logic that a NO ballast can run 160 watts of NO bulbs then it must be able to run at least one 110 VHO is false. For that to be true it means if you run one VHO bulb on the Hello Lights ballast it will send 440 watts to one bulb. In addition why would Coralife make an electronic ballast for VHOs AND and electronic ballast for NOs? Again, I go back to the underlying point, VHO bulbs cannot be run to their full effectiveness on a NO ballast. I honestly don't mean to sound rude but get the thought out of your mind. It's just not fair to the newbies reading this post thinking they can run off to Lowes and get a NO ballast and walla VHO lighting.

 

[coralfishg2]

alright, I am one of those newbies. I have made several post about this topic, and definetly didin't get this good of a responce, this is great, i'm finally learning..lol. from what you have said I understand that you don't get vho performence out of no ballsts, but what will happen if you do use them. can you keep corals, will the bulbs lifespand be shortened. I am in the process of upgrading my light's as we speak. i'm going from 4x55 pc too 2 175w Mh, so the only thing that I need now is my actinics, I was figuring two of them. and possibly to acuasun's so that I don't have to run my MH as long...4 hours MH, 4 hours VHO...will these ballast work for what I'm wanting to do.

 

[ren]

No that wouldn't be true. Please post facts not feelings. With the logic your trying to use then a regular 40W light bulb would burn like a spotlight cause the amperage it there - fact is the bulb is designed to only use the amperage for 40W. Same goes for Flo's - NO, HO, and VHO. The VHO's are designed to use x amount of amperage for the rated wattage. This amperage must be provided by the ballast. My ballasts provide this amperage. The lux output comes from what the phosphers used in the design. Compare the specks of your ballasts to icecaps to mine.

 

[ren]

coralfishg2, I have yet to see any proof that these are just NO ballasts. In fact I tried to run my VHO's on HO ballasts and they would not fire off. So far just seems to be personal opinion that a ballast won't run VHO's unless it costs alot and specifically states VHO on it.

 

[coralfishg2]

ren....will I be able to put two 48" bulbs on one of those ballasts, or do you think that I should get two of them, or do you think it matters

 

[ren]

Oh ya 1 last thought here. This artical has a DIY link near the bottom and walla - looks like my ballast running ? 2 VHO's hummm interseting.
<a href="http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa071598.htm" target="_blank">http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa071598.htm</a>
Just found this site - kinda neet though

 

[ren]

2 48" work good -Ballast is rated for 3 but I think 3 would push it to hard.

 

[coralfishg2]

thanks alot for all the help, on my other post also. I think that I am finally convinced, not that it took much. believe it or not I saw these ballasts at home depot and had this crazy thought running through my head, that they might be able to run them. I came on the board and then I saw all the post about them. well I guess i'm not as stupid as I thought I was. you wouldn't happen to know the bar code on the ballasts (the one for the 48" bulbs)or should I just look for the one that has the numbers 1390ma

 

[ren]

Na no bar code but the ones I'm running are rated at 980Ma -0.98A - hince why I run 2 bulbs. Think the icecap 660 is rated 1500Ma but designed for 4 48" bulbs.
Ohh if ya are going to get them - make sure they are the 120V and Electronic lol they also had 277V and magnetic ballasts here.

 

[ramey70]

Okay I agree with you. I am wrong and million dollar companies like Icecap and Coralife are wrong. Ask yourself, if a NO ballast can fully operate VHO bulbs why would Coralife put out a ballast for both NO and VHO bulbs? Why would Icecap make a special VHO ballast for $175? Nowhere in the article you provided did I see it say you could run VHOs on a regular ballast. Tar ballast yes, NO ballast no. Keep in mind, there are tar VHO ballasts and electronic VHO ballasts. Do you honestly believe that 1000s of hobbyists are being duped by Coralife and Icecap to buy expensive ballasts for VHO lights when a NO ballast will do the same?

 

[lordofthereef]

I'm with you ramey70! if only some people would think a little before they act, all this mess could be eliminated!

 

[ramey70]

I think I've settled it.
Here is an article from the same website REN referenced.
<a href="http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa031300d.htm" target="_blank">http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa031300d.htm</a>
"An important factor when choosing to use VHO lighting is that one cannot simply buy a VHO fluorescent tube to replace the stock 40 watt bulb that came with that Perfecto hood you purchased! VHOs require special 1500mA ballasts or ballast kits, and are not compatible with any other ballast. Oh sure, it'll fire up, but why? Your output will be the same as that $2.00 Growlux bulb, so don't succumb to that thought!
1500mA? mA is the ballast amperage rating, and I refuse to get into basic electricity theory here, LOL! We can discuss ballast at another time. The point here is that once you make the conscience decision to upgrade to reef lighting, VHOs are the natural first choice. Cheaper and easier to install, they form the backbone of the hobby's lighting regimes."
You state your ballast operates 980ma which is far short of what is recommended. I just called my LFS and he says that the Icecap 430 and the 660 both run at 1500ma and amperage is not decreased with bulb number. He says that the amperage will be the same amount to each bulb regardless of the amount of bulbs you have. He said watts are what limits how many bulbs you can use. Basically, the GE ballast is sending 980ma to each bulb regardless of the amount of bulbs. The Icecap 430 & 660 is providing 1500ma to each bulb regardless of bulb number. By increasing wattage you increase how many bulbs you can use. I say again, the GE ballas will not fire VHO bulbs to their full effectiveness.

 

[lordofthereef]

by the way, i know my stuff when it comes to electrical work, and there is no way vho will work to its fullest with an no ballast! just like ramey70 said. all your gonna have with that is, an no bulb at double the price. if you want to do vho cheap, get a tar ballast made for vho. at least then you will have TRUE vho lighting.

 

[ren]

Glad ya know your stuff LOTR - not gonna throw another temper tantrum on us are ya?
Anyways I guarentee that there IS NOT 1500Ma going to each bulb. That is the output avail to run. If the bulbs were connected in series - end to end then yes 1500Ma would be passing each bulb. However the bulbs are not in series, they are parallel. Thus the current provided is split between them all.
You keep preaching NO NO NO Normal Output, show me my ballast are Normal output. Like I previuosly posted I tried to fire the VHO(very high output) bulbs on HO (high output)ballasts and they WOULD NOT fire up. If they wouldn't fire on HO ballasts, how could they possibly fire on NO ballasts?

 

[lordofthereef]

ok then! why is it that i go to my lfs to buy vho bulbs, and when i get them tested, THEY USE A NO BALLAST TO TEST THEM? thats all they have to make sure the bulbs work, and beleive me, that vho bulb isn't NEARLY as bright as it is when i get it home.
by the way, i have no clue why you think i'm throwing a tantrum. its not my fault your plans aren't working how you want them to.

 

[ren]

Lol Don't know what your LFS is doing and sorry about that stab on the tantrum just remember when ya threw the caps stuff a while back. Anyways I've asked and asked SHOW me. I know I tried to see what the difference would be and they wouldn't fire. I used these ballasts, fired em right up, and nearly blinded myself. I honestly get dizzy if just the actinic's are on and the top opened. I know I only have the 1 lone coral so far but it has done wonders under the VHO bulbs compaired to when I was running the HO bulbs. I was running 4 40W HO bulbs and knew that I couldn't support corals. Now I can and am shopping for some. So far nobody has given any proof that these are just average NO ballasts. Now LOTR, you say that they will run in lower levels? please explain this to me. Not trying to be a 'behind' here but I want to learn if I'm wrong. Are you saying that they will run at a lower wattage? or just what? How are they running at less capacity?

 

[lordofthereef]

vho bulbs are CAPABLE of putting out a higher wattage then other bulbs. BUT, if its only receiving so much power from the ballast, thats all its gonna put out. why the ho ballast didn'run the bulbs, i don't know.

 

[ren]

I just had another thought on this. Now watts or power is voltage times current. So lets relate this to audio amps for a bit 2 identical amps (output) can be very differentas to how designed for the power rating - more current is better. Perhaps this is true here too? If the icecaps are providing higher current and less voltage to push the current at the same power then they would burn brighter? But this make me ask if burning brighter - wouldn't that burn the phosphers out faster requiring replacement more frequently? Kinda like having super VHO for a month then rapidly dropping to a HO lux level compaired to holding a VHO level for several months?

 

[ramey70]

It is my understanding that VHO bulbs are in series and not parallel. Which is why you have to a have a bulb in every socket of your setup or he lights won't burn. The article clearly states that you need a 1500ma to run VHOs. Yours is 980ma.
Let me ask you this, the Icecap 430 and 660 are 1500ma. The Coralife VHO elcronic ballasts were 1500ma for their 2lamp and 4lamp setups. My old coil and tar ballast was 1500ma and my new Hello Lights electronic ballast is 1500ma. Do you think this is just coincidence or not? Your ballast is not a VHO ballast. Not trying to be a jerk but you just don't have a VHO ballast if it isn't rated at 1500ma.