US Navy Directive 16134

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Would the word anti-religion better suit you?
There are few things in life that I am anti and religion is not one of them. To each their own so long as they don't push it towards me and when they do I will question them and hopefully make them question their beliefs.
I don't really understand why you are pushing this thread in this direction when no one else brought it up. If you want to talk about it create a new thread.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
As far as Jmick statement, I believe I did read it and it didn't sound like he was saying that about military personel but rather saying that some people in the military are like that. I have to agree, there is nothing about being in the military that means you will or will no be a bigot. There are plenty of racist people in the armed forces and plenty of people who are not racist.

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Its not their job to be nice.

Originally Posted by Jmick
Agreed, nothing wrong with being bigots and racists...
Sure sounded like it to me

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Sure sounded like it to me
Keep it in context.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Sure sounded like it to me
It looked like sarcasm to me. I don't know Jmick's thoughts but his behavior suggests that he does not have this view of all armed forces. If there is confusion it is usually better to ask what someone means instead of assuming.

 

[jmick]

This thread is not about the military as a whole but those who choose to wear shirts that insult anothers religion and beliefs. IMO, anyone who would wear something below is either a complete dope or a biggot. I find it curious how you get worked up when you think someone is "bashing" your faith but you are happy to see it done to anothers...very curious.
1. "Eat Pork or Die" [both English and Arabic versions]
a.. "Shrine Busters" [Various. Show burning minarets or
bomb/artillery shells impacting Islamic shrines. Some with unit logos.]
b.. "Napalm, Sticks Like Crazy" [Both English and Arabic versions]
c.. "Goat - it isn't just for breakfast any more." [Both English and
Arabic versions]
d.. "The road to Paradise begins with me." [Mostly Arabic versions, but
some in English. Some show sniper scope cross-hairs.]
e.. "Guns don't kill people. I kill people." [Both Arabic and English versions]
f.. "Pork. The other white meat." [Arabic version]
g.. "Infidel" [English, Arabic and other coalition force languages.]

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
There are few things in life that I am anti and religion is not one of them. To each their own so long as they don't push it towards me and when they do I will question them and hopefully make them question their beliefs.
I don't really understand why you are pushing this thread in this direction when no one else brought it up. If you want to talk about it create a new thread.
Your right lets get back to the issue. Ive had a change in heart.I think our troops shouldnt be allowed to wear these shirts anywhere,nor should the be allowed to curse,spit,wear skulls and bones on there uniforms or vehicles .Lets teach them to be polite and knock before they enter,speak politely and when in a hostile environment to try and kill with kindness.
jihad is "holy war." Its been rageing for thousands of years.Your on one side or the other if you want to be neutral then butt out.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
It looked like sarcasm to me. I don't know Jmick's thoughts but his behavior suggests that he does not have this view of all armed forces. If there is confusion it is usually better to ask what someone means instead of assuming.

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Are you saying that our military personnel are bigots and racists???

Originally Posted by Jmick
Those shirts certainly carry that theme...
I did ask.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Your right lets get back to the issue. Ive had a change in heart.I think our troops shouldnt be allowed to wear these shirts anywhere,nor should the be allowed to curse,spit,wear skulls and bones on there uniforms or vehicles .Lets teach them to be polite and knock before they enter,speak politely and when in a hostile environment to try and kill with kindness.
jihad is "holy war." Its been rageing for thousands of years.Your on one side or the other if you want to be neutral then butt out.

sigh....
War is war but there is no need to alienate an entire culture/region...not everyone is our enemy or can you not grasp this? How do you think american citizens who happen to be muslim feel about this or is it ok to spit on their beliefs as well? I am thankful that you are a one man island in this thread.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
This thread is not about the military as a whole but those who choose to wear shirts that insult anothers religion and beliefs. IMO, anyone who would wear something below is either a complete dope or a biggot. I find it curious how you get worked up when you think someone is "bashing" your faith but you are happy to see it done to anothers...very curious.
Very simple answer To your question:Im on one side of the Jihad "Holy War"so i dont care if the otherside is offended.It will continue on with or without anti-anything t-shirts.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I did ask.
and it appeared he answered that his comment was to people who wore those shirts, not to everyone.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Your right lets get back to the issue. Ive had a change in heart.I think our troops shouldnt be allowed to wear these shirts anywhere,nor should the be allowed to curse,spit,wear skulls and bones on there uniforms or vehicles .Lets teach them to be polite and knock before they enter,speak politely and when in a hostile environment to try and kill with kindness.
jihad is "holy war." Its been rageing for thousands of years.Your on one side or the other if you want to be neutral then butt out.
Again you are confusing the situation. This directive, if real, placed the restrictions on behavior while on liberty, not on all behavior.
I wish everything was a 2 sided as you try to make it but it isn't. It is just a bad idea to encourage hatred because some people already hate us. There is no need to fuel the hatred but behaving poorly.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Again you are confusing the situation. This directive, if real, placed the restrictions on behavior while on liberty, not on all behavior.
I wish everything was a 2 sided as you try to make it but it isn't. It is just a bad idea to encourage hatred because some people already hate us. There is no need to fuel the hatred but behaving poorly.
I didnt see anything about Only Liberty in the directive in question.And this is 2 sided ,black and white .The gray area is where the confusion is.You win or you lose,the grey area would be North Korea.You have this war confused with a popularity contest and we are very clearly the losers in that department. Unless we are willing to leave the ME and convert to the Muslim religion.
I hope you dont think a t-shirt is going be a decisive factor in this war.I would think killing civilians would be more of a concern than hurting their feelings.
Again if this directive is in fact real, In My Opinion and only mine ,i think its stupid.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
and it appeared he answered that his comment was to people who wore those shirts, not to everyone.
I thought my question was specific and if he was only referring to those few he should of said so.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I didnt see anything about Only Liberty in the directive in question.And this is 2 sided ,black and white .The gray area is where the confusion is.You win or you lose,the grey area would be North Korea.You have this war confused with a popularity contest and we are very clearly the losers in that department. Unless we are willing to leave the ME and convert to the Muslim religion.
I hope you dont think a t-shirt is going be a decisive factor in this war.I would think killing civilians would be more of a concern than hurting their feelings.
Again if this directive is in fact real, In My Opinion and only mine ,i think its stupid.
You are right, it does not say, "while on liberty", I guess I let my personal experience cloud my understanding. Based on my time served, I get the impression that unless one is on liberty they are supposed to be in uniform. Now I suppose they may have relaxed some of the uniform regulations, but I highly doubt the uniform of the day involves sloganed t-shirts.
I still do not know why you insist on trying to make this a conversation about war, the conversation is about a possible directive the instructs on innappropriate behavior.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I thought my question was specific and if he was only referring to those few he should of said so.
I suppose you should be taking that up with him and not me. All I can say is I read his statement and it didn't seem to be directed at me, it didn't offend or bother me and I did not believe it needed any clarification, so I left it alone. If you have a problem with it then that is between you and him, it has nothing to do with me.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I suppose you should be taking that up with him and not me. All I can say is I read his statement and it didn't seem to be directed at me, it didn't offend or bother me and I did not believe it needed any clarification, so I left it alone. If you have a problem with it then that is between you and him, it has nothing to do with me.
lol isnt it apparent that i have a problem with PC and trying to make our military sensitive. Jimic has the right to his opinion as do I .I was only asking why you didnt perceive his statement as offensive. And you answered it . No need to get offtrack again.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
lol isnt it apparent that i have a problem with PC and trying to make our military sensitive. Jimic has the right to his opinion as do I .I was only asking why you didnt perceive his statement as offensive. And you answered it . No need to get offtrack again.

My screen name isn't hard, it's jmick. I agree with you about the whole PC thing, our country takes it way to far these days and it's hard to have fun. That said, this whole thread is not about being PC, it's about common sense. If they were wearing these shirts on base in the US I wouldn't really care, what I care about is while overseas we conduct ourselves in a manner fitting the greatest country in the world (we should set the standard for others to follow) and that we don't make ourselves look like a bunch of knuckleheads. On top of being insulting these types of dopey shirts make the people wearing them look like complete jackasses and I don't want those types of people representing us.

 

[agent-x]

Not to mention we shouldn't be using the "well, they did/have did it too defense". for Pete's sake we are adults and we should try acting like them. I'm all for our troops that are over there having a good time. but I don't think further adding fuel to the fire by further provoking people that already hate us is warranted. We are supposed to be the most civilized nation, but when we do things like that to a people we are supposed to be there to help (regardless of what they do to us or wether they want our help) we should just do our job and try not to make it worse for ourselves. Like I said before I am all for them having fun and I'm thankful that they are there doing a job I wouldn't want to have to do. But they can find other things to do I'm sure. In the end these people we are insulting are just that PEOPLE and for those of you who are christians I would think this should fall under the "do unto others" part.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
My screen name isn't hard, it's jmick. I agree with you about the whole PC thing, our country takes it way to far these days and it's hard to have fun. That said, this whole thread is not about being PC, it's about common sense. If they were wearing these shirts on base in the US I wouldn't really care, what I care about is while overseas we conduct ourselves in a manner fitting the greatest country in the world (we should set the standard for others to follow) and that we don't make ourselves look like a bunch of knuckleheads. On top of being insulting these types of dopey shirts make the people wearing them look like complete jackasses and I don't want those types of people representing us.
I apologize for spelling you screen name wrong Jmick.We do disagree alot on these topics relatieng to politics,religion and what should be done and how we should act in this time of turmoil.I will agree to disagree with you on most of what we have discussed.I would like to take this oportunity to apologize to you and jerthunter for referring to you as anti- American.It was out of line.
I do get overly excited at times when what is happening in this country and abroad relating to terrorism is being discussed.In short Im Really pissed off at the people of Middle East.Im not a war monger,but i dont see a alternative to it.As i said before History repeating itself over and over. My anger is fueled by the media ,the likes of media telling half truths ,distorted truths and sometimes flat out lies to further political agendas.I dont condem the thought of others because they arent in line with mine,but sometimes i get caught up in the moment.Its just frustrating for me to see this country fractured and spreading further apart.I believe if we dont pull together as a nation we are going to self destruct. I do believe in this statement "United we stand,Divided we fall" and we are falling. So again i apologize for the uncalled for remarks i have made.

 

[jerthunter]

Do not worry, I have not been offended.