hammer rider
New Member
hi new to site and hobby I live on the coast of Maine and want to know if i can use this cold sat water for my tank? thanks
using real salt water for tank
- Thread starter hammer rider
- Start date
royal gang
Active Member
you want the special bacteria to help lower left-over food, waste, u would want to get uncured live rock, live sand and well duyh salt water and let it cycle
hammer rider
New Member
ok thanks didn't think ? was so stupid i have live rock live sand was wanting to know if water had different prpeties
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by Hammer Rider
hi new to site and hobby I live on the coast of Maine and want to know if i can use this cold sat water for my tank? thanks
It has been my understanding that water from the ocean, unless taken from very deep and very far from shore, will contain pollutants that you will NOT want in your beautiful little pristine piece of ocean. It seems to me that it would be just asking for trouble...IDK...I live in 'sconsin
Lisa :happyfish
hi new to site and hobby I live on the coast of Maine and want to know if i can use this cold sat water for my tank? thanks
It has been my understanding that water from the ocean, unless taken from very deep and very far from shore, will contain pollutants that you will NOT want in your beautiful little pristine piece of ocean. It seems to me that it would be just asking for trouble...IDK...I live in 'sconsin
Lisa :happyfish
hammer rider
New Member
ok thank you will not try using it
royal gang
Active Member
; maybe it varies place? :notsure:
1journeyman
Active Member
It only takes one parasite, disease or pollutant to ruin your tank...
Better to make your own.
Better to make your own.
chipmaker
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
It only takes one parasite, disease or pollutant to ruin your tank...
Better to make your own.
Really its all a case of being paranoid. On the gulf coat in Ft., Walton area there was a Seaworld type deal until it was wiped out with hurricanes and they pulled water directly out of the gulf and into their tanks for years and years, Same for the place in Gulfport / Biloxi, MS. Nothing onthe end of the pipe but a screenguard to prevent fish and trash from getting caught in it, amnd the distance it went out in the water was not far at all and easily within range of most beach goers. I just have to think that in over 15 tewars of playing with salt water and perhaps 2 years of it with synthetic salt, and have not ever had any problems with water I collect locally where ever I happen to be, from one end of the pan handle to the other it has never caused one problem. LFS sure do not want to hear that though and neither do companies like Instant Ocean or Tropic Marin etc......same thing for the sand.....
It only takes one parasite, disease or pollutant to ruin your tank...
Better to make your own.
Really its all a case of being paranoid. On the gulf coat in Ft., Walton area there was a Seaworld type deal until it was wiped out with hurricanes and they pulled water directly out of the gulf and into their tanks for years and years, Same for the place in Gulfport / Biloxi, MS. Nothing onthe end of the pipe but a screenguard to prevent fish and trash from getting caught in it, amnd the distance it went out in the water was not far at all and easily within range of most beach goers. I just have to think that in over 15 tewars of playing with salt water and perhaps 2 years of it with synthetic salt, and have not ever had any problems with water I collect locally where ever I happen to be, from one end of the pan handle to the other it has never caused one problem. LFS sure do not want to hear that though and neither do companies like Instant Ocean or Tropic Marin etc......same thing for the sand.....
larryndana
Active Member
Of topic:
Chipmaker, you posted along time ago that you live in alabama. You stated that there is a great lfs there you visit, where would that be?
Chipmaker, you posted along time ago that you live in alabama. You stated that there is a great lfs there you visit, where would that be?
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by chipmaker
Really its all a case of being paranoid. On the gulf coat in Ft., Walton area there was a Seaworld type deal until it was wiped out with hurricanes and they pulled water directly out of the gulf and into their tanks for years and years, Same for the place in Gulfport / Biloxi, MS. Nothing onthe end of the pipe but a screenguard to prevent fish and trash from getting caught in it, amnd the distance it went out in the water was not far at all and easily within range of most beach goers. I just have to think that in over 15 tewars of playing with salt water and perhaps 2 years of it with synthetic salt, and have not ever had any problems with water I collect locally where ever I happen to be, from one end of the pan handle to the other it has never caused one problem. LFS sure do not want to hear that though and neither do companies like Instant Ocean or Tropic Marin etc......same thing for the sand.....
Did either of those places keep reef tanks in an enclosed system? Sounds to me like they were flushing huge amounts of water... very different thing than the typical, relatively small, marine reef tank. The Texas State Aquarium does keep enclosed reef tanks and they do not pull water from the Gulf.
You could call a QT tank paranoid right up until the first time you introduce a disease or parasite into your tank.
The simple fact is the Gulf of Mexico is polluted. Everytime you take water from it you run the risk of wiping out your tank. I don't go to a nearby lake and drink the water, and I don't expect my reef to "drink" GoM water.
Really its all a case of being paranoid. On the gulf coat in Ft., Walton area there was a Seaworld type deal until it was wiped out with hurricanes and they pulled water directly out of the gulf and into their tanks for years and years, Same for the place in Gulfport / Biloxi, MS. Nothing onthe end of the pipe but a screenguard to prevent fish and trash from getting caught in it, amnd the distance it went out in the water was not far at all and easily within range of most beach goers. I just have to think that in over 15 tewars of playing with salt water and perhaps 2 years of it with synthetic salt, and have not ever had any problems with water I collect locally where ever I happen to be, from one end of the pan handle to the other it has never caused one problem. LFS sure do not want to hear that though and neither do companies like Instant Ocean or Tropic Marin etc......same thing for the sand.....
Did either of those places keep reef tanks in an enclosed system? Sounds to me like they were flushing huge amounts of water... very different thing than the typical, relatively small, marine reef tank. The Texas State Aquarium does keep enclosed reef tanks and they do not pull water from the Gulf.
You could call a QT tank paranoid right up until the first time you introduce a disease or parasite into your tank.
The simple fact is the Gulf of Mexico is polluted. Everytime you take water from it you run the risk of wiping out your tank. I don't go to a nearby lake and drink the water, and I don't expect my reef to "drink" GoM water.
chipmaker
Active Member
Originally Posted by larryndana
Of topic:
Chipmaker, you posted along time ago that you live in alabama. You stated that there is a great lfs there you visit, where would that be?
There are two of them. One is in Birmingham, and it was perhaps the best when it came to corals and prices.......awesome and they have / had just about anything and everything.....BUT, I have heard through the grape vine they are fixing to close the doors at the end of this year. I can' t swear to it, but anymore they will not take any checks just cash, cash and more cash......and stuff thats getting sold out is not being replaced on the shelves like it used to be. So all signs seem to point that it and their second shop across town is fixing to be history shortly.
The other shop is in Montgomery, but in as much as they have lots of stuff and is getting more each day, just be carefull when dealing with him as uyou may get two or even three different prices if yu ask different clerks. Most stuff is not priced with a sticker or those stikcer prices they have a habit of saying hmmm.....the new sticker must have fell off because that cost XX not XX.....so just be aware. The B'ham one is named with the "A" word for a tank and Design for the last name......so initials are "A.D."
The montgomery one was called The Reef at one time but now goes by same name as the B'ham store and the last name FAntasy.......Sure hate tobreak any rules and post names if your know what I mean but I thnk you can figure it out from what I stated.
Of topic:
Chipmaker, you posted along time ago that you live in alabama. You stated that there is a great lfs there you visit, where would that be?
There are two of them. One is in Birmingham, and it was perhaps the best when it came to corals and prices.......awesome and they have / had just about anything and everything.....BUT, I have heard through the grape vine they are fixing to close the doors at the end of this year. I can' t swear to it, but anymore they will not take any checks just cash, cash and more cash......and stuff thats getting sold out is not being replaced on the shelves like it used to be. So all signs seem to point that it and their second shop across town is fixing to be history shortly.
The other shop is in Montgomery, but in as much as they have lots of stuff and is getting more each day, just be carefull when dealing with him as uyou may get two or even three different prices if yu ask different clerks. Most stuff is not priced with a sticker or those stikcer prices they have a habit of saying hmmm.....the new sticker must have fell off because that cost XX not XX.....so just be aware. The B'ham one is named with the "A" word for a tank and Design for the last name......so initials are "A.D."
The montgomery one was called The Reef at one time but now goes by same name as the B'ham store and the last name FAntasy.......Sure hate tobreak any rules and post names if your know what I mean but I thnk you can figure it out from what I stated.
chipmaker
Active Member
I stand just a sbig of a chance messing up my tank eachtime I add a fish even if it is in qt for a few weeks or even sand or live rock or any number of other things. I sure do not know what else I can say but 13 years of locally collected water and I collect 3 to 5, 55 gal drums every month or two and not one single problem, speaks well for itself. I do not view it as luck of the draw at this stage. I view it as there just is not all that hype and paranoia to it as a lot of folks would have you belive. Just today I went through 190 gal of SW doing water changes and other odds and ends, so come this weekend I'll get another couple of drums full brought up by my friend. There is more reports of unwanted hitch hikers inposts from locally collected live rock. I have yet to read a post in any forum that can be specifically related to using bad locally collected water..And with allthe forums there certainly is a heap of folks that think like me. Talking to a LFS in the panhandle and the owner said he sells relatively little in the line of pre mixed sw or packs of salt, as all he also uses is what is inthe gulf which they collect themselves...as do the majority of the customers. His main customers that buy salt mix is folks who are incapable of hauling water such as older people or those that are also paranoid. Show me posts that can be verified and not of someones opinion that using NSW colled locally is harmfull.
chipmaker
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Did either of those places keep reef tanks in an enclosed system? Sounds to me like they were flushing huge amounts of water... very different thing than the typical, relatively small, marine reef tank. The Texas State Aquarium does keep enclosed reef tanks and they do not pull water from the Gulf.
.
Well they certqainly had a heap of smaler tanks in rhe wall with all kinds of critters adn fish in them and they alldid just fine. Weather the water was in a closed system or flow through matters not, as its stillthe critters inthat so called poluted water..so your not really making a valid point. In other words I can pour poison in my mouth all day long but as long as I do not swallow it it will not harm me.is what yur stajement is akin to. No the fish are init and thats all that matters, and its not done them or any other critter any harm, and they all look fabulous. If things were so out of hand n the GoM you would certianly hear abaout it quicker than quality control and bad products being released by a company)s) that deal with folks on a daily basis that are very well versed in killing critters unintentionally so they can easily cover their tracks. NSW is perfectly fine and nomore dangerous than what man puts his hand into in the manufacturing process. Don;t preach Quality control prevents that either as thats also a joke or we would not have all the aircraft and other man made accidents from negligence on the manufactuers part would we.?
Did either of those places keep reef tanks in an enclosed system? Sounds to me like they were flushing huge amounts of water... very different thing than the typical, relatively small, marine reef tank. The Texas State Aquarium does keep enclosed reef tanks and they do not pull water from the Gulf.
.
Well they certqainly had a heap of smaler tanks in rhe wall with all kinds of critters adn fish in them and they alldid just fine. Weather the water was in a closed system or flow through matters not, as its stillthe critters inthat so called poluted water..so your not really making a valid point. In other words I can pour poison in my mouth all day long but as long as I do not swallow it it will not harm me.is what yur stajement is akin to. No the fish are init and thats all that matters, and its not done them or any other critter any harm, and they all look fabulous. If things were so out of hand n the GoM you would certianly hear abaout it quicker than quality control and bad products being released by a company)s) that deal with folks on a daily basis that are very well versed in killing critters unintentionally so they can easily cover their tracks. NSW is perfectly fine and nomore dangerous than what man puts his hand into in the manufacturing process. Don;t preach Quality control prevents that either as thats also a joke or we would not have all the aircraft and other man made accidents from negligence on the manufactuers part would we.?
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by Hammer Rider
hi new to site and hobby I live on the coast of Maine and want to know if i can use this cold sat water for my tank? thanks
If you can get it offshore, of from a clean source, I would absolutely use it. Obviously, you may need to filter or let it settle, since it contains a lot of things that will not survive at warmer temperatures. This may or may not be easy to do depending on how you are getting the water.
It does not have to be way offshore or way deep. Mother nature in general does this just fine. You just don't want to go to a boat ramp or dock and get it, as you may get a lot of oil, gas from boaters.
hi new to site and hobby I live on the coast of Maine and want to know if i can use this cold sat water for my tank? thanks
If you can get it offshore, of from a clean source, I would absolutely use it. Obviously, you may need to filter or let it settle, since it contains a lot of things that will not survive at warmer temperatures. This may or may not be easy to do depending on how you are getting the water.
It does not have to be way offshore or way deep. Mother nature in general does this just fine. You just don't want to go to a boat ramp or dock and get it, as you may get a lot of oil, gas from boaters.
ophiura
Active Member
I will also say that synthetic sea water is quite abnormal in many of its concentrations of compounds, far in excess of "natural" seawater, so it is a bit premature to consider it superior on all counts with natural seawater "polluted". In addition, failure of many animals, such as most seastars, to thrive in synthetic salts is in theory tied to their inability to adapt to the extreme concentrations of some compounds relative to natural seawater.
If I could easily get a "blue water" supply, even off Galveston, I would definitely do it. The area is murky due to the high sediment load carried by the bayous into the ocean - perfectly natural, BTW - so that is where settling or filtering may come in. It is also, effectively, a "QT" for the water if it is a concern. But I would happily HAPPILY use it.
Corals do quite well, even in the GOM (flower garden banks, for example). Mother nature really does have this sort of covered, and covered better than stuff we can come up with. Natural seawater is always used as the control in studies comparing synthetic salt mixes. Not the other way around. In Borneman's recent salt study, the control seawater was taken from the flower garden banks, off Texas.
If I could easily get a "blue water" supply, even off Galveston, I would definitely do it. The area is murky due to the high sediment load carried by the bayous into the ocean - perfectly natural, BTW - so that is where settling or filtering may come in. It is also, effectively, a "QT" for the water if it is a concern. But I would happily HAPPILY use it.
Corals do quite well, even in the GOM (flower garden banks, for example). Mother nature really does have this sort of covered, and covered better than stuff we can come up with. Natural seawater is always used as the control in studies comparing synthetic salt mixes. Not the other way around. In Borneman's recent salt study, the control seawater was taken from the flower garden banks, off Texas.
xdave
Active Member
Seawater is seawater, the stuff you mix is artificial. Real seawater is better if you can can it from an unpolluted area. Be careful though, tiny little things that are insignificant in the ocean can multiply quickly and destroy a tank. You need to store it in total darkness for over 2 weeks for those to die off.
The use of collected seawater by commercial or public aquariums is common to those that are near it. There are many things that make this totally different than putting it in your home aquarium. It's common for it to be run through a series of mechanical filters going down to less than 3 microns, as well as massive chemical purification. The ratio of water to livestock is way bigger than a home aquarium. They also may be, as someone mentioned, doing a constant water change.
The use of collected seawater by commercial or public aquariums is common to those that are near it. There are many things that make this totally different than putting it in your home aquarium. It's common for it to be run through a series of mechanical filters going down to less than 3 microns, as well as massive chemical purification. The ratio of water to livestock is way bigger than a home aquarium. They also may be, as someone mentioned, doing a constant water change.
1journeyman
Active Member
Ophiura, I totally agree that water off of a reef (such as Flower Gardens) would be fine. That's about 100 miles offshore though.. I also agree with ya that nature has a way of taking care of the ocean, but my impression is that it cleans itself by dumping the gunk on the beach.
My last year in college at TAMUCC we worked with the texas Land Office to start up a 5 year research study of the pollutants on N. Padre Island. (no idea what the conclusions were. Would be interesting to find out.) I walked a lot of beach that year (along with perfoming quite a few necropsies on Bottlenose Dolphins). Maybe seeing all of that trash has tainted my impression of coastal waters.
I'm not arguing that the ocean can't do things better than we can. I do stand by my original post: It only takes once...
/Shrug.. I could be wrong. Maybe all of that waste, fertilizer, oil, tar, cigarette residue, etc. isn't found in noticeable concentrations in coastal waters.
Chip, the "open" vs. closed system makes a huge difference. In an open system the parasites and diseases would tend to be flush away before they reach large concentrations. In a closed system they tend to multiply rapidly. I think it's Calfo that recommends collected water to be decantered after being stored for a couple of weeks for this purpose.
As I see it collected ocean water offers a few benefits: 1. Cheap, 2. Actual true ocean water 3. Possible addition of natural food source.
To me those benefits don't outweigh the risk of collecting in shore. Now, if you have access to a boat and want to collect in 50ft of water I'd think that would be a great idea.
My last year in college at TAMUCC we worked with the texas Land Office to start up a 5 year research study of the pollutants on N. Padre Island. (no idea what the conclusions were. Would be interesting to find out.) I walked a lot of beach that year (along with perfoming quite a few necropsies on Bottlenose Dolphins). Maybe seeing all of that trash has tainted my impression of coastal waters.
I'm not arguing that the ocean can't do things better than we can. I do stand by my original post: It only takes once...
/Shrug.. I could be wrong. Maybe all of that waste, fertilizer, oil, tar, cigarette residue, etc. isn't found in noticeable concentrations in coastal waters.
Chip, the "open" vs. closed system makes a huge difference. In an open system the parasites and diseases would tend to be flush away before they reach large concentrations. In a closed system they tend to multiply rapidly. I think it's Calfo that recommends collected water to be decantered after being stored for a couple of weeks for this purpose.
As I see it collected ocean water offers a few benefits: 1. Cheap, 2. Actual true ocean water 3. Possible addition of natural food source.
To me those benefits don't outweigh the risk of collecting in shore. Now, if you have access to a boat and want to collect in 50ft of water I'd think that would be a great idea.