Using sand from nearby beach
- Thread starter phixer
- Start date
phixer
Active Member
This is why its nice to share ideas in the DIY section, when folks learn just how simple most things in our hobby are to make or DIY and how much better they can do it, it becomes easy to realize how many companies are really just ripping off the consumer. Ever noticed how most products now days are getting smaller why the prices get higher? Look at college text books for example, math hasnt changed in 100s of years yet the text books cost a fortune, and get changed each year. Bonebrake you might be able to relate to this, anyhow back to the subject. Thanks for the gouge, thats a whole lot cheaper than what live sand is sold for. This wouldnt be a bad combination with some crushed coral mixed in. But what makes the acid in the vinegar react this way with the calcium carbonate?
Phixer :thinking:
Phixer :thinking:
talath
Member
My first tank I ever had was started on mined marl (calcium carbonate rock of coral reef origin) and "sand" I collected from the southern barrier islands in North Carolina. I put the sand in quotes because it wasn't really sand at all, and I hope your sand isn't either. Rather, it was the finely crushed shells and other calcium based material found at the wave break...ie, the place where the wave curls finally collapse in on themselves and pummel the shoreline with constant force. It's just seaward of the hardpack, and there's usually a ledge under the water right there. The next time you're at the beach, you can reach down and grab a handful of it to inspect. I found all sorts of little creatures in it, including many tiny hermit crabs. The best time I found was in early August. The warm currents have been running northward along the coastline all summer and have brought countless planktonic creatures with it. My collected substrate was just teeming with inumerable creatures. I began skimming almost immediately and added a trio of blue damsels about two weeks later. I was soon treated to coralline algae and a few small mushrooms.
Based on what I've read here from other's experiences, I seem to have lucked out. Still, if you've got the time and inclination to studiously observe and record your keeping of a school aquarium, you may provide the hobby with some useful info. Consider Gerald Allen's work that lead to the captivation of the Banggai cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni). After all, we know in a broad strokes what works and does not work, yet there are still exceptions that suggest variables we still don't understand. I've got to wonder how incipient our hobby would be if the innovators had adhered to the status quo.
Based on what I've read here from other's experiences, I seem to have lucked out. Still, if you've got the time and inclination to studiously observe and record your keeping of a school aquarium, you may provide the hobby with some useful info. Consider Gerald Allen's work that lead to the captivation of the Banggai cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni). After all, we know in a broad strokes what works and does not work, yet there are still exceptions that suggest variables we still don't understand. I've got to wonder how incipient our hobby would be if the innovators had adhered to the status quo.
bonebrake
Active Member
Originally Posted by jr2857
WOW REALLY!!!!!! and you are sure it is 100% safe for SW. i'm going this weekend then. i need alot more sand right now for my 20 long
JR, make sure it the good stuff. You want Southdown brand sand. To the best of my knowledge, there are no other brands that are aragonite at Lowes or Home Depot. Maybe someone else knows of another brand.
:joy:
WOW REALLY!!!!!! and you are sure it is 100% safe for SW. i'm going this weekend then. i need alot more sand right now for my 20 long
JR, make sure it the good stuff. You want Southdown brand sand. To the best of my knowledge, there are no other brands that are aragonite at Lowes or Home Depot. Maybe someone else knows of another brand.
:joy:
talath
Member
Phixer,
To answer your chemistry question, this reaction is what is commonly referred to as a gas forming reaction. In short, the acetic acid reacts with the calcium carbonate to form calcium acetate and carbonic acid. Carbonic acid remains unstable at common temperature and pressure, thereby decomposing into carbon dioxide and water. You asked why this occurs. It occurs simply because the products as a whole possess less energy than the reactants as a whole. You'll notice that this reaction also generates a small amount of heat, in conservation of energy.
The problem with this type of reaction, is that it quickly tests for carbonate, yet is not as selective for the cation...Calcium we hope. Several other forms of carbonate will react similarly to this test, though most are beneficial to the aquarium. Besides, if it is carbonate, it's certain to be calcium carbonate with small percentages of magnesium carbonate. It's probably what's commonly known as limestone, of which aragonite is a type.
To answer your chemistry question, this reaction is what is commonly referred to as a gas forming reaction. In short, the acetic acid reacts with the calcium carbonate to form calcium acetate and carbonic acid. Carbonic acid remains unstable at common temperature and pressure, thereby decomposing into carbon dioxide and water. You asked why this occurs. It occurs simply because the products as a whole possess less energy than the reactants as a whole. You'll notice that this reaction also generates a small amount of heat, in conservation of energy.
The problem with this type of reaction, is that it quickly tests for carbonate, yet is not as selective for the cation...Calcium we hope. Several other forms of carbonate will react similarly to this test, though most are beneficial to the aquarium. Besides, if it is carbonate, it's certain to be calcium carbonate with small percentages of magnesium carbonate. It's probably what's commonly known as limestone, of which aragonite is a type.
phixer
Active Member
Because energy cannot be created or destroyed but only changed in form, then the products as a whole producing less energy than the reactants as a whole makes sense to a degree, a practical example would be the release of energy by gunpowder in a solid state or a gallon of gasoline in a liquid state when they are ignited. It is simply a change of state produced by an external physical factor (the flame). But what is the external physical factor that starts this reaction? What physical action takes place to cause the release of energy for these two particular chemicals, its almost identical to the old vinegar (spelling) and baking soda combination.
froznfinn
Member
we've had threads on this topic before.. several people had good luck cycling a tank with sand collected from areas outside reef areas and had no problems with the exception of either wanted or unwanted hitchhikers..good luck..make sure your tank is well cycled before adding fish etc..
talath
Member
Phixer,
I may have not stated correctly. The sum of all the products possess less energy than the sum of the reactants. Since conservation of energy tells us we cannot simply lose energy to the "ethers", this energy must be given off in some form or another. Your gasoline example is a good example of a chemical reaction that reduces matter to carbon dioxide, water, and mineral salts. In so doing, it produces heat and light. Our calcium carbonate/acetic acid example releases only heat (exothermic reaction). As for the motive force behind the reaction, you're right, it is more than just having all of the players in one spot at the same time. For instance, everyone knows that if you take a lit match and place it on the air/gasoline surface of a puddle of gasoline, you'll soon have no eyebrows. But, if you put an unlit match into gasoline, it just gets wet. All of the tangible compounds exist in both examples, yet one produces the reaction, and one does not. The successful reaction occurs because the lit match already sustains enough heat to initiate the reaction at the air/gasoline interface as the volatile nature of gasoline creates an explosive gas at that interface. Take away the heat, and you have no reaction. Similarly, remove the volatility of the gasoline, and you'll have no reaction. i.e. reduce it to a solid form. It just so happens that our calcium carbonate/acetic acid reaction proceeds quite well at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. It's lucky for us, because it provides a definitive field test for carbonatious rock in geology. We don't have to cart around a pressure vessel, or vacuum pump. Nor do we need to carry a blowtorch or any catalyst...just good ol' vinegar.
I may have not stated correctly. The sum of all the products possess less energy than the sum of the reactants. Since conservation of energy tells us we cannot simply lose energy to the "ethers", this energy must be given off in some form or another. Your gasoline example is a good example of a chemical reaction that reduces matter to carbon dioxide, water, and mineral salts. In so doing, it produces heat and light. Our calcium carbonate/acetic acid example releases only heat (exothermic reaction). As for the motive force behind the reaction, you're right, it is more than just having all of the players in one spot at the same time. For instance, everyone knows that if you take a lit match and place it on the air/gasoline surface of a puddle of gasoline, you'll soon have no eyebrows. But, if you put an unlit match into gasoline, it just gets wet. All of the tangible compounds exist in both examples, yet one produces the reaction, and one does not. The successful reaction occurs because the lit match already sustains enough heat to initiate the reaction at the air/gasoline interface as the volatile nature of gasoline creates an explosive gas at that interface. Take away the heat, and you have no reaction. Similarly, remove the volatility of the gasoline, and you'll have no reaction. i.e. reduce it to a solid form. It just so happens that our calcium carbonate/acetic acid reaction proceeds quite well at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. It's lucky for us, because it provides a definitive field test for carbonatious rock in geology. We don't have to cart around a pressure vessel, or vacuum pump. Nor do we need to carry a blowtorch or any catalyst...just good ol' vinegar.