UV Steralizer "Really THAT good?"

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Bohle
OK my buddy and I just got back from a LFS that we have never been to. The guy has this shop and also sets up tanks for people and businesses. He told us:
"We put cured live rock in, live sand, and hook up everything with a UV, we wait 2 hours and put the fish in and we leave and its good to go." He also said he has been in the business for 30 years and has never used a QT. He never QTs and never has ich he says cause of the use of a UV.
I guess what I am getting at. What is the benefit of a UV? Are they really all what they are cracked up to be?
Pros/Cons

Hmmm, was he trying to sell all these things too?
The UV has nothing, of course to do with the cycling of a tank. So there is a HUGE risk in using LR and just throwing in a bunch of fish. You can overwhelm the biological filter. If you have LR and throw in a fish or two, it may be fine. But you can't fully stock it without a significant risk.
IMO, a UV will not make up for poor practices when it comes to maintenance, setup etc. It will not be a sure thing, as mentioned there are lots of things that must be right for it to work right. But it will not make up for other diseases that arise from poor husbandry. It is not a cure all.
IMO, he is lying to some degree, and otherwise just not telling the whole story. My guess is that he is selling something (of course

), such as a lot of fish at once with a UV sterilizer.
I would like to know if he runs copper in his tanks. And I would like to know if he has a guarantee on his fish.

 

[xdave]

Lots of stores use UVs, particularly if they can't use copper. They can be useful for a QT, but I never use one for the DT. They kill beneficial bacteria.
I always have to laugh when I go to a store where they sell miracles.

 

[acrylic51]

I submit that this is not a problem with the UV units, but rather a lack of understanding of what their proper application is.
People think that these things are a cure all or an easy fix, things get out of hand because they are ignoring other resolutions, and their system dies, and it's the UV unit's fault?
UV units have their uses, it's just not to cure ich outbreaks, which seems to be the most pervasive myth surrounding them.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
I submit that this is not a problem with the UV units, but rather a lack of understanding of what their proper application is.
People think that these things are a cure all or an easy fix, things get out of hand because they are ignoring other resolutions, and their system dies, and it's the UV unit's fault?
UV units have their uses, it's just not to cure ich outbreaks, which seems to be the most pervasive myth surrounding them.

Right, they do have their uses. I think its important to know that they simply WILL NOT cure an outbreak ich ;or any other parasite. Every hobbiest should read the thread on this site: (https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127007) or other info, on the ich life-cycle; and this will become obvious. The only time an ich "bug" can be killed, is when it is free-swimming. This is also the only shot UV has to kill it and the bug must pass thru the UV system before it finds a fish--quite an order---it just can't happen. The only way to cure an ich outbreak is hypo-salinity or copper. Thinking UV will do this will only lead to a false sense of security; and when ich 1st appears, time cannot be wasted.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
I submit that this is not a problem with the UV units, but rather a lack of understanding of what their proper application is.
People think that these things are a cure all or an easy fix, things get out of hand because they are ignoring other resolutions, and their system dies, and it's the UV unit's fault?
UV units have their uses, it's just not to cure ich outbreaks, which seems to be the most pervasive myth surrounding them.

This sounds familiar...

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
This sounds familiar...

There are often echoes in here!

 

[snakeblitz33]

No, it's not a cure all at all.
Sorry to hijack the thread. I haven't used UV... ever, but I am still wondering what are the absolute benefits to a marine tank by using one? ... Does it clean up some algae problems, does it help aleviate some of the common problems? thanks.

 

[hefner413]

well, I got one that came with the used setup I just purchased. The fella that used it said that the biggest difference that he saw was that the water seemed more clear most of the time...
I haven't read enough about them to decide whether or not I'm going to use it in the system...
I've quickly read above - seems as though they have pros/cons - cons being that they can break and cause big probs, and that they can kill beneficial bacteria and micro organisms along with bad, (and they simply don't help cure outbreaks like many people think they do).
concerning the pros: it seems as the main pro listed so far is that they help maintain better water quality if used properly in conjunction with other vital parts of the reef system... could you expound more on what these truly do to improve quality? thanks..

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
No, it's not a cure all at all.
Sorry to hijack the thread. I haven't used UV... ever, but I am still wondering what are the absolute benefits to a marine tank by using one? ... Does it clean up some algae problems, does it help aleviate some of the common problems? thanks.
To me, it's all about parasites.
I am a subscriber to the school of thought that ich and bacterial illnesses are always present in a system, and the fish are exposed to them on a daily basis. In much the same respect, we humans are exposed to cold germs all the time. Why don't we get sick? First, there are not sufficient numbers of them to overwhelm our immune system, and second, our immune system is sufficient to fight off the infection as it occurs.
Parasitic and bacterial infections are similar in that regard. A stress free environment for the fish bolster slime coat and the immune system, increasing the fish's ability to fight off infection.
At the same time, in order for a parasitic or bacterial infection can take place, there has to be an expoential explosion in the population of these organisms in the water to be able to build sufficient numbers to have an impact. That's where I feel UV units provide their benefit. They continuously kill off organisms that pass through them, helping to prevent outbreaks. Once a fish is infected, the population of the organisms is sufficient that UV won't help you, but it can help you from a maintenance perspective... so IMO it won't solve a pre-existing high parasite population problem, but it will help maintain lower numbers of them in teh system.

 

[mtsuguy]

I purchased a coralife turbotwist after my tank cycled last week, I had a horrible algae problem and my water was tinged really bad. I hooked it up to the return on one of my filters. You can only have about 110 gph flow for it to actually work and kill everything so if you do buy one it will have to be placed on a very small pump. I didn’t buy it for the parasite problems, I purchased it for the water cleaning. It took maybe 2 days and my tank was crystal clear. I also have another filter running this tank that does not go thru the UV. I've read a lot about them and I do not believe they really work for killing parasite or will keep an outbreak from occurring in a tank but it does keep the water very clear. I previously have one installed on a fw tank and it also kept the water very clear. My neighbor also has one hooked up to his pond. I have learned on here that most fs are just trying to sell you something. If you do buy something mechanical do not buy it from the lfs, you can find it on the net with shipping for at least half price. The only thing that I have found this not true for is MH lighting, that stuff is just expensive no matter what.

 

[987654321]

I purched mine to clear up a really bad alge bloom. You couldnt see 3" into the tank and the water was green. horrible. This happened when I was using old lights and it happened almost overnight. The UVS cleared it up in less than 24hrs. I was amazed. The water was crystal clear. Thats why I have one.
If you dont want ick then QT your fish. Simple.

 

[mtsuguy]

If I had known what I was doing when I got into this hobby I would have just purchased a reef ready tank and done the sump/fuge. From what I have seen those are just as helpful as the UV for keeping the water clean plus you get the benefit of more "good" bacteria and extra water volume to keep your tank more stable. But that’s just my opinion and I am still very new to this.

 

[hefner413]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
To me, it's all about parasites.
I am a subscriber to the school of thought that ich and bacterial illnesses are always present in a system, and the fish are exposed to them on a daily basis. In much the same respect, we humans are exposed to cold germs all the time. Why don't we get sick? First, there are not sufficient numbers of them to overwhelm our immune system, and second, our immune system is sufficient to fight off the infection as it occurs.
Parasitic and bacterial infections are similar in that regard. A stress free environment for the fish bolster slime coat and the immune system, increasing the fish's ability to fight off infection.
At the same time, in order for a parasitic or bacterial infection can take place, there has to be an expoential explosion in the population of these organisms in the water to be able to build sufficient numbers to have an impact. That's where I feel UV units provide their benefit. They continuously kill off organisms that pass through them, helping to prevent outbreaks. Once a fish is infected, the population of the organisms is sufficient that UV won't help you, but it can help you from a maintenance perspective... so IMO it won't solve a pre-existing high parasite population problem, but it will help maintain lower numbers of them in teh system.
Hey SCSInet. Just wondering... you said earlier that it does one thing only - kill living things... So does it kill good bacteria, etc along with the parasites? If so, is this detrimental?

 

[mtsuguy]

Originally Posted by Hefner413
Hey SCSInet. Just wondering... you said earlier that it does one thing only - kill living things... So does it kill good bacteria, etc along with the parasites? If so, is this detrimental?
It does kill both good and bad, it is not a selective killer. It has not been detrimental to my tank in any way. The flow that goes thru there is so small that it give the good bacteria in your tank enough time to repopulate. Plus if you have live rock in your tank there is always going to be good bacteria.

 

[kjr_trig]

I would love to hear from SCSI and SrFisher (or anybody else) as to weather you feel it is more important in a FO system? vs a Reef? I have typically been told it is very important in a FO

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
I would love to hear from SCSI and SrFisher (or anybody else) as to weather you feel it is more important in a FO system? vs a Reef? I have typically been told it is very important in a FO

I think the algae problems may be the best reason to have one; I imagine that's why they are so popular with pondkeepers. I can't see any way they would be much help with parasites; just comparing what a UV can do with the ich life-cycle seems to make this obvious . (To me, but that's the only one I can speak for) I don't use them anymore. I used to; I just think my time and $ can be better spent. I've never used one in my pre-Katrina reef tank and I'm not going to have one in the reef that is now in the mid-=planning stage. (My last tank, yeah , right). IMO, reefs (and maybe LR) have just too much diverse life to start indiscriminately start killing all the spores, bacteria, animal & plant cells, and other microscopic life that must be present. I don't think UV will do much to the bio-filter bacteria, because the UV can only get at stuff in the water column and will have no effect whatever on the bacteria in the LR & LS. Reefkeeping is still in its infancy, IMO, and who knows what organisms do what. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...and good reefers are doing extremely well.