very sick blennie-help

[kspink]

Hi,
We bought our first fish-a red-lipped blennie. Put him in a quaratine tank that had been cycled for months-but we cleaned out the substrate before we added him and only put back some PVC pipe (as suggested). (this may have been a mistake in that the tank did not have a chance to recycle before we added the fish). Anyway, we gave him a fresh water/methylene blue dip and then put him in the tank. We did daily water changes to try to keep the ammonia down were never able to keep up (It remained around 0.1 no matter what we tried). We even sacrificed some live rock from the main tank and a sponge from the sump of the main tank to try to help with the filtration.
The fish was eating regularly and seemed to be in good condition. He did have this odd behavior of bouncing off the bottom like a pin ball though. We noticed some white spots -well, what we think are white spots-on his fins. It's hard to tell on his body because he is white to begin with. We gave him another freshwater dip and began with copper treatment-what we read was recomended for most parasitic infections. He began swimming constantly and will not 'perch' like normal. He was still eating as of last night-quite well actually. This morning he is not looking good. Sitting up at the top of the tank and not swimming aroung at all. We don't think he is going to make it. Very bummed because he was a very personable guy.
Now, should he die, what do we do with the tank to make it ready for the next attempt? Need to know what we should do about the copper, any residual parasites/infectious stuff, and filtration.
Thanks for the help
Katie

 

[beth]

What about trying to save this fish?? First off, don't dip fish and don't dose with copper when you don't know what is wrong with the fish.
What is your ammonia and nitrite readings as of now? Do you have a source for carbon filtration?
Does the fish have spots still, and, if so, is it ich? What do the spots look like? Is the fish scratching??
I'd rather try to address the needs of this fish, rather than talk about getting your tank ready, at this point, for the next fish.
If you are still exp. ammonia/nitrite, then keep doing water changes. You can use water from your main tank [if the water is good quality] to do water changes. This will assist in seeding the uncycled QT. Add a powerhead to get that water ciruculation in your QT going. What filtration do you have in there?
Lets try and save this fish.

 

[kspink]

Beth,
We are trying to save this fish which is why we did the dip and copper treatment. We think he has a parasite-either marine velvet or white spot/ich. He doesn't have any open wounds or sores-nothing that looks bacterial. Except for the spots his fins are in good condition. Although now he won't perch on them anymore like he did at first. He was bouncing off the bottom-don't know if that would be considered scratching-as if he didn't like to touch the pipes we have in there. He tends to sit on the heater, leaning on one fin but not the other. The spots look like he has been dusted with white pepper or something. The spots are not wart-like, so its not lymphocytis. Based on his behaviour and the spots we assumed he had a parasite, and everything we read said to treat with copper. They also said that early treatment was best because if you wait too long, it may be too late, especially with velvet.
The only good thing he's been doing is eating like a pig. He eats everything we put in for him and actually come to the front of the tank and begs when he sees us coming. We are very careful not to put in too much. We only add a few flakes at a time to be sure he eats what we add. Well, at least up until this morning. Haven't tried to feed him today yet. The lights don't come on until later and we will not be home until after 5pm.
We are using a hang on filter with a power head for the quaratine tank; also have some airstones running. We put in cured live rock from the main tank to help with the filtration but it didn't do any good. We had carbon in the hang on filter, but took it out once treatment began. Our nitrates are below 10, the nitrites are at 0, but the ammonia is hovering around 0.1 to 0.2 no matter how much water we change. And the directions for the copper treatment say not to change water once treatment is initiated because you want to maintain a certain level in the tank. By the way, we do have a test kit for that and are testing that as well.
Believe me, we don't want to lose him, but in case we do, we want to know what to do with the tank so as to not repeat any mistakes, or make our next addition sick with leftover parasites from this one.
Katie

 

[beth]

So does the fish still have the spots, and the spots are or where pretty much all over??? I would not use copper to threat ich, particularly in an uncycled tank.
The problem is obviously not velvet otherwise the fish would be dead. If the dots are pretty much spread over the fish, then I would say that you are dealing with ich. The best treatment is hyposalinity. To treat with copper you really need to maintain therapeutic levels---meaning that you have to check copper levels daily, and dose accordingly. For ich, the hypo treatment is better.
Instead of the airstones, try using powerheads. You need to really get the circulation going in a troubled QT. How big is the tank?

 

[kspink]

Beth,
Yes, he still has spots. Noticed them Sunday and began treatment Monday. It is hard to tell whether the spots are all over because he has a white body and the spots are white, but we think they might be.
How low do you drop the salinity?
We do have a powerhead that adds to the circulation. We have a pretty good current going. The tank is a 10gal.
Thanks

 

[beth]

From what you can see the spots look like salt sprinkled on the fish?
Here is the procedure for hyposalinity. You're best bet for accurate measurement of salinity is a refractometer. I know they are selling for around $40 at ----. If you can't get this, then you need to use a quality glass hydrometer. NOT a swing arm hydrometer.
O.S.T. stands for Osmotic Shock Therapy which is commonly referred to in the hobby as hyposalinity [water that is deficient in sea salt]. Essentially, O.S.T. simply places the infectors [Cryptocaryon parasite---ick/ich] in an environment in which they cannot survive while the host, (or infected fish) can. This remedy WILL NOT work in reef systems, invert tanks or FOWLR as it incorporates lowering the specific gravity of the entire system to 1.009 Specific Gravity which is not tolerated by inverts or LR.
To drop the salinity, this is done as you would do a normal water change. However, you are simply replenishing your tank with fresh RO/DI water---not salt water! The use of a refractometer is best for this process, as this procedure requires precision in measuring salinity. [Absolutely no swing-arm hydrometers for this procedure.] Monitor the lowering closely so as to not reduce it too fast. Usually over a period of 48 hours is fine. The bacteria colony which is the biological support for your tank will survive, the fish will be perfectly fine, but the ich will not. By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. Boney fish tolerate this treatment very well, in fact, once the water become hyposaline, you will likely note a significant improvement in your fish health and appetite. There is no reason to fear this treatment. You can do a water-change out, in small increments every half hr or so.
Your goal is to drop the specific gravity to 1.009 [48-hrs] gradually. Once all signs of the parasite are gone, then keep your fish in this hypo-saline water for 3-4 wks. If all is well, then you can gradually [over the course of 4-5 days] bring the specific gravity [salinity] back up to normal levels . If all is well after a week, then return the fish to their main tank.
When the fish are eating, offer them quality and varied food soaked in garlic.