Vodka Dosing 30 gal SPS Reef started dosing 2-17-12

[lubeck]

Im going to start this thread but anyone that has recently started or has months/years experience in carbon dosing please join in the fun. Ive been dosing with 80 proof vodka for over a week now. (Ive been sober for 8 years and i still find a way to buy vodka

The screwed up part is I really cant remember when i started dosing so the date on the title is my best guess)What i have noticed is an increase in crud in my filter sock and my skimmer now gets black flecks of aweful smelling liquid...The water column appears to getting clearer but i do run carbon anyhow so its hard to say. my dose is .2 in the morning and .2 at night.
The (my) purpose for the carbon dosing is for water clarity, PE and being able to feed my corals heavily on a daily basis. Im not sure how high my dose will go because i only have traceable nitrates (if any) and .05 phosphates. I have a fuge with chaeto that is now slow growing and will probably die in the next few months do to low nutrients. i also have other macros in my DT that have already started thining out.
Now this is the part that most might/will curl their lip.... My tank is only 6 weeks old and I have way too many corals (at least for the type of species) for such a young tank. (you can see my thread with a few pics 30 gal SPS Reef Build) Most will say my tank is too young (and i would agree..... kinda) for acropora's, stylo's and clams, but i have them. So my experiment after reading and reading and reading is this.I have had SPS corals in my tank after the 4th week of when i poured the first drop of water in it. (it would be wise to read and see my filteration before starting) All the corals are doing quite well. I am showing more PE than what i saw at the LFS, which was none and color is about the same. Im excited to see the results
My theroy is this, dosing creates a large biomass which could create a more stable water column for SPS and LPS regardless of how young my tank is. We will see... Im going to wait another week to post my first pics before dosing.
Im looking forward to reading more experiences with dosing..

 

[flower]

A fantastic skimmer is really the only absolute need. You don't have fish just coral and inverts? Yes you will kill off all macros algae. The Aquaripure filter is a better/safer choice. If you have fish, run an air line with no stone...even the Aquaripure sucks the oxygen out of the tank, the vodka dose even more so. Make sure the top is open with plenty of surface movement.

 

[lubeck]

skimmer is good but will upgrade in a year.. i dont have a top on my tank and the power head is breaks the surface pretty hard right now.. should be good with oxygen... i do have two fish and a giant cuc... do you dose?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3461842
skimmer is good but will upgrade in a year.. i dont have a top on my tank and the power head is breaks the surface pretty hard right now.. should be good with oxygen... i do have two fish and a giant cuc... do you dose?
I used to, now I use the Aquaripure filter on both of my tanks along with a phosphate reactor. The Aquaripure takes a certain dose, no increasing, no adjusting....no readjusting. Nitrates and phosphates are 0 on both tanks. I did learn the hard lesson that if the Aquaripure filter gets clogged...purge the tube into a bucket. The backed up bacteria is dealy.

 

[lubeck]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[ibew41]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3461848
I used to, now I use the Aquaripure filter on both of my tanks along with a phosphate reactor. The Aquaripure takes a certain dose, no increasing, no adjusting....no readjusting. Nitrates and phosphates are 0 on both tanks. I did learn the hard lesson that if the Aquaripure filter gets clogged...purge the tube into a bucket. The backed up bacteria is dealy.
isn't the dose you place into the filter an alcohol base?I was looking into getting one but I have kept dosing vodka/vinegar
while looking at other options

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBEW41 http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3461907
isn't the dose you place into the filter an alcohol base?I was looking into getting one but I have kept dosing vodka/vinegar
while looking at other options
Yes, the Aquaripure is a carbon based filter. It never needs cleaning or media...I inject (my choice..vodka) into my filter once a week. The LG one takes 8ml, and the small one takes 4ml. The bacteria bloom stays inside the filter and as water passes thru, it is cleared of nitrates, and drips back into the sump.
When I dosed vodka, I dosed 1ml everyday for the first week...do a nitrate test, then dose 2ml everyday for a week...and so on....I keep increasing and testing until I get a 0 reading....Then I cut that dose in half for my maintenance dose...if I see nitrates again...I start all over.
With the Aquaripure...I run it three days, then added the first recommended amount of vodka (or whatever carbon choice) and then once a week add that same amount... one hose leads from the tank to the filter and has a little pump, and the other hose drips back into the tank from the filter....Thats it.
You can use sugar, ( I never heard of vinegar) or vodka 80 proof/40%

 

[spanko]

VSV Vodka-Sugar-vinegar dosing is something I have been doing some research on lately. a single carbon dosing, say vodka only. will tend to produce a dominant strain of bacteria in the biomass, not to the exclusion of others totally, but dominant nontheless.
"This trend towards a single dominant strain within a biofilm is a bad thing because no single bacterial strain is genetically coded (i.e., able to synthesize the necessary enzymes and sideophores, and demonstrate adequate Monad kinetics) to do all of the chemical reactions required for the biogeochemically balanced, "low nutrient" water column chemistry that Acropora species, and their allies, prefer. Multiple bacterial strains living in close proximity within a biofilm are required for the symphony of oxidative & reductive chemical reactions that is necessary."
Therefore I have been considering the addition of Sugar and Vinegar to my Vodka dosing regime. An experiment for sure but may be something I will consider as a long term procedure.
Interesting reading on this out there.
Here is a little on carbon dosing itself
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

 

[lubeck]

Thanks for the link spanko. I'm a chef by trade who would have guessed it. If someone finds out hat adding a little oil to your tank will do wonders you would have a pretty kick ass vinaigrette dressing your animals are chowing on!! :rotfl:
But all joking aside thanks for the link. Looking forward to the read.

 

[lubeck]

I incrased my dose to .3 ml twice a day. I still have a lot of algae on the glass as well as macros growing in the DT. My chateo in the sump is still maintaining. I will take pics tomorrow night of when i first got the corals and now... not sure how much different it will look in two weeks but have noticed the polyps being out more...

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3462794
I incrased my dose to .3 ml twice a day. I still have a lot of algae on the glass as well as macros growing in the DT. My chateo in the sump is still maintaining. I will take pics tomorrow night of when i first got the corals and now... not sure how much different it will look in two weeks but have noticed the polyps being out more...
Who told you to dose 2X a day? All the research I did says 1X and the same dose all week, not only does the vodka change the bacteria in the tank it also sucks out the oxygen. It is a very dangerous practice and 2Xs a day is too often. UNLESS you have read something different...do tell.

 

[lubeck]

i am well below the recommended dosing considering im in week 3. I feel its all about consistency and not blasting my small tank with the entire dose but to split it up into two.... I havent read it anywhere that you can but have seen from folks on this site split the dose.... im taking it slow and will probably level out at 1.0 ml twice a day...

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3463004
i am well below the recommended dosing considering im in week 3. I feel its all about consistency and not blasting my small tank with the entire dose but to split it up into two.... I havent read it anywhere that you can but have seen from folks on this site split the dose.... im taking it slow and will probably level out at 1.0 ml twice a day...
I haven't read anything on 2Xs a week is all. A small half dose I think would be fine to take it slow, it would just take longer to reach your goal, but 2Xs a week...that, I haven't read. From what I have read, it's a matter of tank size to decide on the dose. Once you reach the magic 0 nitrates and phosphates, then you split the dose. Perhaps that is where you read about splitting the dose.
I'm just trying to help, I'm no expert. It's just that vodka dosing is very dangerous for your critters, and following the perscribed method would be the safest route.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
This is an article that explains things very clearly and how to dose. It also explains the dangers, and the why and how things can go bad. After you have read this.... then it is up to you and what you want to do, it's your tank. Like I said, I'm just trying to help.

 

[lubeck]

Flower I know your trying to help no worries. as far as the dosing goes I does twice a day and split the dose. I didn't mean to indicate anything about twice a week. As far as when I uped the dose, I do wait a full seven days if I decide to up the dose. I hope that makes sense.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/390741/vodka-dosing-30-gal-sps-reef-started-dosing-2-17-12#post_3463067
Flower I know your trying to help no worries. as far as the dosing goes I does twice a day and split the dose. I didn't mean to indicate anything about twice a week. As far as when I uped the dose, I do wait a full seven days if I decide to up the dose. I hope that makes sense.
Ah...yes much more sense. some people even IV drip the dose to take all day... very slow. I still hope the article helped some.

 

[lubeck]

I've increase my dose to .5 ml twice a day. Should have some before and after pics up tomorrow from when I started dosing till current day.

 

[lubeck]

pics...
color sucks growth is good

 

[lubeck]

color sucks growth is good

 

[lubeck]

new additions

 

[lubeck]

Spanko, Florida Joe or Moderators, do you think the reason for the color loss to corals is due to a higher PAR level and lower nutrients? does the color come back? when/how?I pulled this from a Zoa sticky. ...check out the bolded
Some of you may know or have run across Mike G. screename greenbeen36191, a marine biologist from another site. I remember reading this explanation
"Coloration is a lot more complicated than just the amount of zooxanthellae present. It also has a lot to do with where the zooxanthellae are in relation to the pigment layer, and how dense the pigment layer is. In the deep water the pigments of the coral would likely be placed behind the zooxanthellae to reflect the available light back onto the algae. The color of the pigments is mostly blocked by the zooxanthellae, so you would see a brown coral. When you bring it into brighter light the pigments would probably be moved in front of the zooxanthellae to act as a sunscreen. You would see more of the pigments than the zooxanthellae, therefore a colorful coral. Of course this isn't always the case.
Yes, you could get a bloom of algae that turns a coral brown by giving it more light in a favorable spectrum, but more likely you'll see the opposite reaction. If you're in a nutrient limited environment (eg. a reef), as the zoox increase their efficiency, the less the environment can support.
Different lights put out different amounts of UV, which affects the level of the protective pigmentation. Higher UV (which is closer to the blue end of the spectrum) should shift things towards the production of more coral pigments. The PAR of the lights affects zooxanthellae abundance, with more PAR usually giving more zoox (though in very low nutrient situations you could get the opposite).
Of course, a large part of the difference is in perception. The pigments in the zooxanthellae reflect mostly reds and yellows, while the most common coral pigments reflect mostly green and blue. If you use a light with a lot of the red-yellow end of the spectrum it tends to highlight the zooxanthellae. Likewise, if you use a bluer bulb it tends to highlight the coral pigments. Bluer light also activates the flourescent proteins that aren't affected by longer wavelengths."