Vodka dosing, caulerpa, deep sand bed plenum.

[florida joe]

A very interesting situation I would like to share.
Way back when I had a constant nitrate reading of approximately 25. Wanting to attempt the elusive zero I built a custom refuge utilizing a plenum. The refuge was divided one side a deep sand bed the other mud. The ref was stocked with caulerpa. I also started a regiment of vodka dosing. The vodka method of introducing a carbon source actually out competed the caulerpa. My nitrates fell to zero. And I was a happy camper. Now for the strange part. All my studies indicated that vodka dosing needed to go on indefinitely to maintain my zero nitrate readings.
I decided to stop dosing and see how long it would take for my nitrate to once again reach 25.
After ninety days my nitrates are still at zero. Now the logical answer is that the deep and mud bed colonized anaerobic bacteria and thy are doing the job of keeping my nitrates at zero BUT if
The dosing out competed the caulerpa I am sure it out competed any anaerobic bacteria for food,

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/382087/vodka-dosing-caulerpa-deep-sand-bed-plenum#post_3332206
A very interesting situation I would like to share.
Way back when I had a constant nitrate reading of approximately 25. Wanting to attempt the elusive zero I built a custom refuge utilizing a plenum. The refuge was divided one side a deep sand bed the other mud. The ref was stocked with caulerpa. I also started a regiment of vodka dosing. The vodka method of introducing a carbon source actually out competed the caulerpa. My nitrates fell to zero. And I was a happy camper. Now for the strange part. All my studies indicated that vodka dosing needed to go on indefinitely to maintain my zero nitrate readings.
I decided to stop dosing and see how long it would take for my nitrate to once again reach 25.
After ninety days my nitrates are still at zero. Now the logical answer is that the deep and mud bed colonized anaerobic bacteria and thy are doing the job of keeping my nitrates at zero BUT if
The dosing out competed the caulerpa I am sure it out competed any anaerobic bacteria for food,

I am by no mean very smart on such matters. I have a question sort of...
I was under the impression that somehow the vodka dosing filled the coral with some kind of change from their natural state. That they needed the vodka to stay alive after the natural bacteria was destroyed from the over abundance of carbon. So that while it created 0 nitrates it affected the living organisims inside the coral as well.
I call this a question SORT of because "my understanding" and the reality are not aways the same...LOL
If you can explain in common English and dummy down the explanation I would be very interested in hearing your opinion.

 

[nikesb]

it sounds like you may have actually helped some kind of bacteria in your DSB that can sustain the bio load in your tank. have you had your water tested elsewhere to check the nitrate?
Flower, vodka dosing implements the use of organic carbon which does not destroy the bacteria already in the system. They compete, but I highly doubt they will out-compete one another. Its the nature of bacteria. Carbon dosing gives rise to new bacterial colonies that live in the water column from my understanding. They do need some kind of organic carbon source.

 

[florida joe]

flower this is from the web and really not that hard to understand
The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria. The two main nutrients reduced from organic carbon addition are nitrate and phosphate molecules (NO3 and PO4 respectfully). The reduction of phosphates, in turn, allows for enhanced calcification and growth of corals. Additionally, lower NO3 and PO4 have the added benefit of reduced nuisance algae, both bubble and hair. This observation has been reported numerous times by vodka users. The reduction in algae is the result of lower NO3 and PO4 within the water column and not a direct effect of ethanol addition. These potential benefits have lead some to add foreign organic carbon sources not usually found in the reef ecosystem to their tank. The organic compound most frequently used is ethanol (sold in stores as vodka).
The addition of vodka/ethanol is thought to increase bacterial biomass. For this, vodka addition would result in bacterial growth and reproduction. During this process nutrients in the water (including NO3 and PO4) are taken up for the formation of new macromolecules that are needed in cell synthesis and viability. Due to this rapid growth and reproduction, NO3 and PO4 can drop quickly from detectable levels by most test kits on the market. The increased biomass of the bacteria leads to a notable increase in skimmate production, removing more waste than without vodka addition. The increased skimmate is thought to remove the bacteria or bacterial biproducts that have assimilated the NO3 and PO4 within the water column leading to NO3 and PO4 depletion.
Many view organic carbon dosing as unnecessary as organic carbon isn?t thought to be limited in the reef aquarium environment since larger organic molecules are found within the water column at any given time. However, the amount of organic carbon that heterotrophic bacteria can utilize must be limited due to the reported benefits and observations on Reef Central from organic carbon dosing. This method is applicable for systems that have had the inability to effectively remove both NO3 and PO4 from their system.
NIKE
I to believe that some form of bacteria was colorized that now utilizes nitrates as a food source and if so it would have to be in my sand bed and convert the nitrates to gas or if is in my water column and its biomass is removed by my skimmer which is less likely
n high levels of NO3 and PO4 may not benefit to any great extent by employing carbon source dosing.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeSB http:///forum/thread/382087/vodka-dosing-caulerpa-deep-sand-bed-plenum#post_3332231
it sounds like you may have actually helped some kind of bacteria in your DSB that can sustain the bio load in your tank. have you had your water tested elsewhere to check the nitrate?
Flower, vodka dosing implements the use of organic carbon which does not destroy the bacteria already in the system. They compete, but I highly doubt they will out-compete one another. Its the nature of bacteria. Carbon dosing gives rise to new bacterial colonies that live in the water column from my understanding. They do need some kind of organic carbon source.

Any idea how carbon affects the bacteria or living whatevers that lives in the coral?

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/382087/vodka-dosing-caulerpa-deep-sand-bed-plenum#post_3332254
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeSB http:///forum/thread/382087/vodka-dosing-caulerpa-deep-sand-bed-plenum#post_3332231
it sounds like you may have actually helped some kind of bacteria in your DSB that can sustain the bio load in your tank. have you had your water tested elsewhere to check the nitrate?
Flower, vodka dosing implements the use of organic carbon which does not destroy the bacteria already in the system. They compete, but I highly doubt they will out-compete one another. Its the nature of bacteria. Carbon dosing gives rise to new bacterial colonies that live in the water column from my understanding. They do need some kind of organic carbon source.

Any idea how carbon affects the bacteria or living whatevers that lives in the coral?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

 

[nikesb]

Flower, they are unsure how it affects the symbotic zooxanthallae. Some have suggested that the colors can use the bacteria as food, though not proven

 

[geoj]

Have you read
CORAL September/October2010

 

[nikesb]

I was only able to read half of it at borders yesterday. It was the one that explained the different methods of bringing nutrients down, correct? zeovit, carbon, and probiotic