U
usirchchris
Guest
I do 25% weekly on my aggressive tank, and about the same (25%) on my other tanks with less bioload every two weeks.
water change debate
- Thread starter primetizzle
- Start date
primetizzle
Member
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2783103
Its not really a debate. The more you do the better.
looks like a debate to me
http:///forum/post/2783103
Its not really a debate. The more you do the better.
looks like a debate to me
primetizzle
Member
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2782932
The build up only goes so far, typically featherdusters and tunicates won't overgrow plumbing and algae doesn't do well in darkness... I'd only really clean where detritus is going to accumulate, i.e. in the protein skimmer, sump floor, pumps, chiller unit.
ok now thats a ?....how the hell do you clean your chiller? I have a 1/4 hp and only the front of it comes off, which dosnt expose any of the mechanical parts. I was trying to avoid cleaning that thing but I know if I dont eventually thats gonna be $600 down the drain
http:///forum/post/2782932
The build up only goes so far, typically featherdusters and tunicates won't overgrow plumbing and algae doesn't do well in darkness... I'd only really clean where detritus is going to accumulate, i.e. in the protein skimmer, sump floor, pumps, chiller unit.
ok now thats a ?....how the hell do you clean your chiller? I have a 1/4 hp and only the front of it comes off, which dosnt expose any of the mechanical parts. I was trying to avoid cleaning that thing but I know if I dont eventually thats gonna be $600 down the drain
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by primetizzle
http:///forum/post/2784145
ok now thats a ?....how the hell do you clean your chiller? I have a 1/4 hp and only the front of it comes off, which dosnt expose any of the mechanical parts. I was trying to avoid cleaning that thing but I know if I dont eventually thats gonna be $600 down the drain
You can run it (off the tank) with a solution of vinegar.
http:///forum/post/2784145
ok now thats a ?....how the hell do you clean your chiller? I have a 1/4 hp and only the front of it comes off, which dosnt expose any of the mechanical parts. I was trying to avoid cleaning that thing but I know if I dont eventually thats gonna be $600 down the drain
You can run it (off the tank) with a solution of vinegar.
primetizzle
Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2784208
You can run it (off the tank) with a solution of vinegar.
cool thanx
http:///forum/post/2784208
You can run it (off the tank) with a solution of vinegar.
cool thanx
rotarymagic
Active Member
Run it off the tank, and do a reverse flush too. You'll be surprised how much crap comes out the intake tube during a reverse flush hahahahaa.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by primetizzle
http:///forum/post/2785459
cool thanx
personally I wouldn't worry about it too much however, the algae only grows in light, and there is no light in the chiller.
http:///forum/post/2785459
cool thanx
personally I wouldn't worry about it too much however, the algae only grows in light, and there is no light in the chiller.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2783103
Its not really a debate. The more you do the better.
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2783170
Skimmers take out trace elements, corals take out trace elements, water changes put trace elements back in the water. And you do not want to dose alot and not do water changes. esspessially if you are dosing something like super dkh and turbo calcium.
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2783215
Not things like CA. but it takes out things that corals benefit from. You CAN over skim in a reef. I just think if you are going to spend money on mag, cal, buffer, huge skimmer, and all the other things that are in salt that you cannot dose why not just do a water change? Dont get me wrong I am for skimmers. But NO skimmer can replace a water change.
More or less my thoughts as well. I think the absolute main argument is that excess water changes will not hinder your tank (pending you don't like do a 50gal WC on a 55gal and don't match temp/salinity/pH), so if you can do more, why not? Much like guessing how many fish are good for your tank, only you, based on your test readings, can decide what the proper WC schedule is. Much like understocking a tank wouldn't hurt it, doing frequent WC's won't hurt anything.
As far as not doing WC's, I can't see it. The best way to describe water changes are a blanket buffer. If you have a tank heavy stocked with corals, and don't do WC and just supplement, you're doing just that, supplementing only those very specific compounds. If do WC's and don't dose, they will help bring up the levels, and if you WC's and dose, if you happen to dose too much of a certain element, lithium for instance (a neurotoxin in SW) is found in almost every one of those genernic 'trace elements' bottles, WC's will help buffer that level down. There's also the fact that no one really, truly knows exactly each and every element corals issue, and how the corals use. Doing WC's will bring (or at least attempt) to bring every element back to normal.
This can also be directly applied to skimmers. No one really knows what your specific skimmer, exactly removes. Especially once you start to combine the skimmer with even more unknowns, like Ozone and/or UV. While you can overskim a reef, I am a big fan of big skimmers, and I don't feel Sly's MSX 160 on a 72gal is close overskimming. Something like an EuroReef RC250 on a 55gal. However continuing WC's as mentioned above is crucial.
sly
Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2785794
There's also the fact that no one really, truly knows exactly each and every element corals issue, and how the corals use. Doing WC's will bring (or at least attempt) to bring every element back to normal.
This is true but also remember that we are using synthetic sea salt... So those trace elements that you speak of could just as easily be supplemented with a synthetic compound as they could a water change with synthetic salt water. Synthetic salt mixes try to do a good job of emulating the ocean's chemistry but as you said, it's really impossible to know exactly what trace elements are being used.
With that being said I see no real problem with dosing your tank via water changes or dosing your tank by adding trace elements. To me, they are both dosing with synthetic compounds which can only at best, poorly represent the true chemistry of ocean water...
The problem I see is that if these trace elements are not used up, then over time they can accumulate. To me, that is the biggest argument for water changes. But the question I have is do these trace elements really cause harm if they accumulate? They don't call them trace elements for nothing... Some of them are measured in parts per trillion... In other words, it might take a lifetime for it to build up to the point to where it might have a negative impact on the tank's health... But as was said, no experimentation has been performed that can even even show which of these trace elements are even needed. It seems like they are so low in concentration that even if there is a deficiency or a surplus, the coral in the tank seems to survive just fine otherwise...
I am by no means an expert reef keeper but I do have a few corals growing and splitting which seem to be doing fine in a tank which has not had a water change in almost a year and a half. I may be wrong and in the end it may come back to get me... but as I see it no one really knows what goes on inside a tank and so in reality, every one of our systems are part of one big bio-chemistry experiment and we each have to find our own way to try to duplicate something which can probably never be duplicated; the ocean.
notsonoob
Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2785794
More or less my thoughts as well. I think the absolute main argument is that excess water changes will not hinder your tank (pending you don't like do a 50gal WC on a 55gal and don't match temp/salinity/pH), so if you can do more, why not? Much like guessing how many fish are good for your tank, only you, based on your test readings, can decide what the proper WC schedule is. Much like understocking a tank wouldn't hurt it, doing frequent WC's won't hurt anything.
As far as not doing WC's, I can't see it. The best way to describe water changes are a blanket buffer. If you have a tank heavy stocked with corals, and don't do WC and just supplement, you're doing just that, supplementing only those very specific compounds. If do WC's and don't dose, they will help bring up the levels, and if you WC's and dose, if you happen to dose too much of a certain element, lithium for instance (a neurotoxin in SW) is found in almost every one of those genernic 'trace elements' bottles, WC's will help buffer that level down. There's also the fact that no one really, truly knows exactly each and every element corals issue, and how the corals use. Doing WC's will bring (or at least attempt) to bring every element back to normal.
This can also be directly applied to skimmers. No one really knows what your specific skimmer, exactly removes. Especially once you start to combine the skimmer with even more unknowns, like Ozone and/or UV. While you can overskim a reef, I am a big fan of big skimmers, and I don't feel Sly's MSX 160 on a 72gal is close overskimming. Something like an EuroReef RC250 on a 55gal. However continuing WC's as mentioned above is crucial.
Kalkwasser, Magnesium, Reef Plus and Reef Trace.
The Magnesium, is there because it is a vital element for calcium/strontium incorporation by the corals. Plus adding Kalk reduces your magesium amounts. Reef Trace and Reef Plus give you added elements that a water change will bring.
You can do it either way, but I'm finding more and more that water changes are less necessary with proper filtration.
No need to over anaylize things.
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2783215
Not things like CA.
actually skimmers are exceedingly efficient at removing calcium. skimmate contains about 2200 ppm calcium. it was quite a suprise to me when I learned that.
http:///forum/post/2783215
Not things like CA.
actually skimmers are exceedingly efficient at removing calcium. skimmate contains about 2200 ppm calcium. it was quite a suprise to me when I learned that.
