way too much conflicting information

[fixed]

I'd be that most everyone here has gone through this. I have a 2 week old 55 gallon tank with live rock, live sand, and seasoned/cured/aged(?) water. It was professionally set up, including the Bak Pak skimmer and XP2 canister filter.
The pro said I could add fish right away, and that because of the live rock, etc., I'd not need to go through the normal cycling process. Any truth to this? I read things all over the board on this issue, from no cycle, to one day cycling with certain bacteria additives (which I did use), to 6 to 8 weeks to cycle. What the heck is a beginner supposed to do?
Also, based upon the "no cycle" advice (which, of course, I wanted to believe), I added a small Lion, a Picasso Trigger, a Niger Trigger, two tank bred Oscellaris Clowns, and a Chocolate Chip sea star. Well, with no signs of aggression involved, the clowns and star did not survive the weekend. Everyone else looks healthy, though.
Also also, feeding. I see advice ranging from 2-3x per day for carnivores, to my pro saying once every other day. Do I split the difference?
Water quality is relatively good, I suppose, with just slight showing of ammonia and nitrites, but below the "danger" threshold on my testing info. Ph, SG, and temp are spot on.
I followed the 2 hour gradual addition of tank water acclimation protocol with all fish, etc.
My question is mainly this. With all the varied advice available, who do you trust? Do you simply choose how conservative to go, then go with the advice that fits your level of chose conservativeness? I realize it's very easy for anyone to simply say, wait 6 months, then add 1 fish per month, with each fish quarantined for 30 days first. However, how do we know if that's appropriate or just extreme conservativeness? I don't mind the financial aspect of having to replace a few $15 fish along the way in the learning process, but is there an ethical issue, as well as financial? I have no idea what source of information to believe.
Totally confused. Any help?

 

[rev]

looks to me like you ARE cycling the tank with expensive fish.You should have no ammonia and no nitrites.Seems like alot of fish for a 55 gallon tank too.

 

[hot883]

Originally Posted by Fixed
I'd be that most everyone here has gone through this. I have a 2 week old 55 gallon tank with live rock, live sand, and seasoned/cured/aged(?) water. It was professionally set up, including the Bak Pak skimmer and XP2 canister filter.
The pro said I could add fish right away, and that because of the live rock, etc., I'd not need to go through the normal cycling process. Any truth to this? I read things all over the board on this issue, from no cycle, to one day cycling with certain bacteria additives (which I did use), to 6 to 8 weeks to cycle. What the heck is a beginner supposed to do?
Also, based upon the "no cycle" advice (which, of course, I wanted to believe), I added a small Lion, a Picasso Trigger, a Niger Trigger, two tank bred Oscellaris Clowns, and a Chocolate Chip sea star. Well, with no signs of aggression involved, the clowns and star did not survive the weekend. Everyone else looks healthy, though.
Also also, feeding. I see advice ranging from 2-3x per day for carnivores, to my pro saying once every other day. Do I split the difference?
Water quality is relatively good, I suppose, with just slight showing of ammonia and nitrites, but below the "danger" threshold on my testing info. Ph, SG, and temp are spot on.
I followed the 2 hour gradual addition of tank water acclimation protocol with all fish, etc.
My question is mainly this. With all the varied advice available, who do you trust? Do you simply choose how conservative to go, then go with the advice that fits your level of chose conservativeness? I realize it's very easy for anyone to simply say, wait 6 months, then add 1 fish per month, with each fish quarantined for 30 days first. However, how do we know if that's appropriate or just extreme conservativeness? I don't mind the financial aspect of having to replace a few $15 fish along the way in the learning process, but is there an ethical issue, as well as financial? I have no idea what source of information to believe.
Totally confused. Any help?
Ok, first off welcome. Next, only add 1 at a TIME even when cycled which you definately are not.
You need to get a build up of good bacteria. If there were 3 guys with guns and they were the best marksman there is; suddenly they are confronted with 1,294,058,098 other guys shooing at them, who do you think will win? The many of course. Thats what yo just did to your tank; OVERWHELMED IT!
Learn from this, DEMAND them to reinburse you for your losses because they sold them to you KNOWING they would die.
Man I hate LFS that are crooks.

Then get the book by Robert Fenner." Conscientious Marine Aquarist

 

[dr. evil]

fixed, im no expert but i would think about taking those fish back until your water is right id hate to see you lose em that would make for a pretty expensive cycle not to mention the ammonia is burning thier gills.

 

[murph]

Most likely even though you did not see the aggression yourself the triggers did a number on your clowns and star fish. Did they just die or disappear all together?
When you test and show any level of ammonia or nitrite your tanks not cycled and no live stock should be added. The cycling process could take up to a month but if you are testing yourself you will know its cycled when both of the above readings are zero.
Don't get down on yourself as you are in the majority when it comes to taking bad advice and taking some loses due to bad advice from an LFS.
Have the so called "professional" come back and get the other fish. At this point I think you may be better off doing your own research which involves the reading recommended above and visiting forums like this.
This is strictly a matter of opinion on my part but if I were you I would rethink going with an aggressive tank. Meaning the triggers and clown. This kind of limits you on branching off down the road into a reef tank with corals and a more diverse selection of fish.
Any lfs that will not try to steer you away from mixing clowns and trigger fish is either incompetent or in it for the money alone.
After you do some research ask what ever LFS you are dealing with questions that you already know the answer to. If he comes back with some sort of ridiculous answer find another LFS.

 

[joncat24]

i tend to believe the people who have nothing to gain by giving you advise...the lfs wants you to buy hundreds of dollars in equipment and livestock so they tell you whatever it takes to achieve that goal....the people on these boards are not making a dime for there trouble so I tend to put a little more stock in their opinions...but that's just me and my 2 cents worth

 

[beth]

Whoever gave you that advise, is no pro. You may have avoided a cycle if you had not added fish and let the tank settle in for a month or so, before adding anything.
In this hobby it is just a very wise thing to go slow and to not add several fish at a time, even in a well-established tank.
Also, wise is to have a quarantine tank for fish where they go for a month before ever entering the display.

 

[salty tank]

thats nuts! i waited like 3 weeks before adding any fish and when i did i added 3 blue damsels for $4 a piece.

 

[salty tank]

Originally Posted by joncat24
i tend to believe the people who have nothing to gain by giving you advise...the lfs wants you to buy hundreds of dollars in equipment and livestock so they tell you whatever it takes to achieve that goal....the people on these boards are not making a dime for there trouble so I tend to put a little more stock in their opinions...but that's just me and my 2 cents worth

Thats also true. THe guys at my store are verysmart and the owner was a nasa engineer.
THe best fish store i have ever been to with the healthiest fish i have ever seen. I allways talk to this one guy Aaron and he gives me the best advice. He actually saved me money on equipment instead of trying to sell everything that i didnt need. SUch as a better filter. I was going to buy an expensive canister filter until he said all i need was a millenium 1000 for my 65 gall cause i allready have a protein skimmer. That saved me $100 bucks.

 

[xtech]

Originally Posted by joncat24
i tend to believe the people who have nothing to gain by giving you advise...the lfs wants you to buy hundreds of dollars in equipment and livestock so they tell you whatever it takes to achieve that goal....the people on these boards are not making a dime for there trouble so I tend to put a little more stock in their opinions...but that's just me and my 2 cents worth

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!
last few days ive been reading many posts about the brown algae i have,i now know it to be diatoms. in so reading ive found out that it will go away but there are various snails i could get to help. i go into my lfs tonite and tell this guy that i want snails to clean up the diatom,at that time the manager pops in and tells me"there is nothing i can put in the tank to eat it" the only way to clean it up is by aggresivly stirring up the sand.well that didnt sit right with me so i bought some astreas snails.4 hours later 1/3 of my sand is white again.
to the members of the board that helped me ....i say thank you,and only hope that in a few years i too can help a noobie or 2 to maybe do the right thing.
bob

 

[fixed]

Got the book. I take it the consensus is that it is the bible and it's safe to follow the advice there?
Thanks for all replies.

 

[murph]

Sounds like you you have taken the first step to some success. By the way I didn't mean to include the clowns in the aggressive category in my previous post. They are great little reef tank inhabitants and probably a good first fish for after your tank cycles. That is if you decide against the more aggressive fish tank scheme.
If you do decide to go with an aggressive tank check out that forum section. Its not one I visit much but probably has a lot of good info in it.

 

[scubadoo]

It was possible to avoid a cycle with cured live rock IF your bio-load is/was low...and the key word being POSSIBLE.
Triggers are heavy waste producers regardless of size and so are tangs. Way too many fish and your system is too small to house those fish to adulthood.
The local pro simply wanted to take your money....or is no pro but he/she would fit the definition of an ignorant jackass.

 

[1journeyman]

Whoever sold you that mix of livestock is no expert...
You are your best advisor. Read a lot and learn for yourself. You'll see some differences of opinion around here, but usually people have facts to back up their opinions.
Sounds like the fish store took advantage of you.
Glad you found the boards here though!!! Good luck with the tank!

 

[konrade]

ScubaDoo, umm, I think you are being a little harsh. The guy is just trying to make a living, or he is just misinformed. But yeah, I agree, don't listen to them, come here before you do anything.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Konrade
ScubaDoo, umm, I think you are being a little harsh. The guy is just trying to make a living, or he is just misinformed. But yeah, I agree, don't listen to them, come here before you do anything.
If you hold yourself out to be an "expert" then you should be....and you should be INFORMED. No experienced aquarists much less a pro should have set this system up and provide this livestock form day one..

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
If you hold yourself out to be an "expert" then you should be....and you should be INFORMED. No experienced aquarists much less a pro should have set this system up and provide this livestock form day one..
I agree with that. If you are making money setting up tanks for people they should be able to trust your advice.

 

[acrylic51]

I agree with Beth!!!!! This guy isn't even close to a novice with advice and a setup like he did.......Does this guy own a store or work for a LFS?? Either way he wouldn't get my business again, and I'd be sure to let everyone else know about his service, or lack of it, and would demand my money back on the items that died......He gave really poor info

 

[tinmanny]

After reading this forum for almost 2 months it seems to me that a lot of people try to fill up there tank in 1 try.

Not remembering anything that they should have read in the books about over populating or taking it slow to avoid getting there (ea-co spelled wrong but) system in trouble. :help: Why any LFS would let someone buy more than 1 or 2 different fish without advising of consequences is just stupid. The LFS guy where I go is very informative and always tels me things that I can confirm here. More often than not we should read ask and then go and buy.

Not throwing stones but it is like Diving in the deep end and remembering I do not know how to swim. :scared: I strongly recommend that people question here before acting especially if you are new at this. No one here wants to see a beginner fail.

That is a pat on the back to all of you who have helped people make informed decisions.

Good Luck restarting because it looks like that is where you are headed.

my 2 cents
Manny