we need help with small reef system

[rabbit_72]

Ophiura... So many questions and I think I forgot them all! Ha! Anyhoo, we run carbon in all tanks... the smaller tank in question is in the computer room, so no cleaners or anything toxic near it except my kids which is rare as they are not allowed in here. Too many things for them to get into. I believe my husband just purchased this test kit this year, so it shouldn't be old. We were told most test kits are fine to use. The one he has is a liquid test kit that just tests the basics. Of course now I know we need at least 3 different tests that we do not have.
For my small reef tank that is killing everything, I have only tried damsels, figuring they would be hardy enough to help figure out the problem, but even they die! Frustrating! We do weekly water changes, but maybe an extra one during the week if the hubby can get one in. We have 3 kids and work opposite schedules with anither baby on the way, so time is severely limited around here (kids are all 5 and younger). But we truly want to make our tanks successful. I will try to get some pics posted as soon as I figure out how to get them smaller!
Thanks for your help!

 

[rabbit_72]

We have been thinking toxins as well, but don't know how to eliminate them if that's it. We run carbon 7/24 as well. Do water changes... the last one was about 50% - a rather large one, but we wanted to get fresh R/O water in there. The only thing I could think of was getting rid of the live rock and substrate and starting over. But it sounds so drastic, especially when one considers the expense of doing that.

 

[farslayer]

That's just nuts, pics are certainly going to help. I assume you replace the carbon about once a month or so? I thought nothing would kill a damsel

 

[rabbit_72]

OKay, today is not my day, I guess. Now I can't my computer to read my memory card so that I can get these pics posted.. that's if they are still not too big. And we seem to have a big storm brewing, high winds and stuff, so I am going to have to shut down soon anyway. But, I will try again hopefully tomorrow. Or I can easily e-mail them if anyone would want me to email them. Are we allowed to post amail addy's here? I know some message boards do not allow that. I hate trying to remeber all the rules!
Thanks so much for all of your help. It will help I am sure!

 

[rabbit_72]

Tell me about it. I didn't think anything would kill damsels either. I actually hate those little buggers, but we figures they wouldn't die and get the tank back into shape. Who would have thunk it????
And yes, we replace the carbon. My hubby is more dedicated to the tanks than to me, I think! Ha! The only reason I am posting and he isn't is he can't type. And he works during the day, and I at night.

 

[farslayer]

I think emails are ok, but they can be pilfered by spyware scanning the page so I don't post mine. I'll get an email update to this thread I'm sure, so just post when you can. I think a pic would help a lot.
Do you actually see the fish the entire time, from entry to death?

 

[rabbit_72]

The last damsel was acclimated then put in the tank where he hid in the live rock. I had to go to work, so I didn't see him. My hubby would have called me if he had come out to eat, but he didn't call. The next morning, the bugger was in front of the live rock... dead. Not one sign of life. I just don't get it.

 

[rabbit_72]

Now that I know what this qick reply button is, maybe I will figure out how to post these stupid pics! Thanks for you patience. Hopefully get them up soon... but that storm is coming!

 

[tiberius]

Originally Posted by rabbit_72
My hubby and I turned a 29 gallon formally fresh water tank into a salt water tank, intending it to be a small reef tank. We wanted to test our skills before investing in a larger tank. We let it cycle and added live rock and eventually corals and some small fish. It was beautiful. The my hubby brought home a coral from a reputable store, but it carried a bacterial infection. It was red and fuzzy and eventually started killing off coals and even fish. We were told to increase the oxygen levels in the tank and use Chemi-Clean to clear up the infection. It did, but now the only things that will survive in this tank are snails and conches and a few corals that have never returned to their former beauty. Even the live rock has lost it's color! And any fish we try to add to the tank die within 4 to 6 hours. Also, during the time after clearing up the infection, we moved and thought maybe the water here was causing the fish to die because my hubby lost almost all his fish in his 55 gallon, a blue tang and a yellow tang and a few others. What did survive were his clown fish that have just started spawning again. It's kind of strange all the problems we have been having lately. Can anyone help? We now use R/O water and my hubby checks levels of everything all the time. We will be attending a Coral Frag Swap conference at the end of the month and would like to know if my little reef tank holds any hope of housing life again!!
Just wondering what your tank temp is and what substrate are you using? Did you buy live sand somewhere? Maybe, a bag of crushed coral?

 

[rabbit_72]

Our tank temp. is 79. We used, (if we remeber right) Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand ( not packed in water).

 

[rabbit_72]

A little background history on this tank....
... We made sure it was cleaned without using chemicals, of course, purchased Emperor 280 BIO-Wheel filter, SeaClone Protein Skimmer, 2 AquaClear 50 gallon powerheads and 1 Maxi-Jet powerhead, Visi-Therm Stealth Heater (100 watt). We use a mag-float algae scaper and run carbon 24/7. We "seeded" the tank by using water from the 55 gallon tank, substrate and live rock from the 55 gallon. This ran this way with a couple of fish for about 3 months. So from March to the end of June, we only had live rock and a couple of fish in it. We were told not to put in a UV sterilizer in as the uv rays would destroy any of the inverebrate food we would add to the tank. We purchased coral from a frag swap (like the one we are going to this year) and had quite a beautiful tank. For 4 months we had no problems. The corals opened beautifully everyday and the starburst polyps were spreading as were the button polyps. I loved it and was very proud.
Then, red algae began growing and multiplied very quickly and we were told it was a bacterial infection and were advised to purchase Chemi-Clean, which we did and treated the tank for a few weeks until the red algae disappeared. But the corals were dying one by one as did my fish and hermit crabs and emerald crab. Amazingly, the snails and conch lived. The two remaining clown fish were moved to the quarentine tank before we moved to our new house in October. By the time we moved, all corals had died except for a few that were barely hanging on. we thought they were recovering, but now they just look the same as then. After we moved we still had to dose the tank with Chemi-Clean again as the red algae began to creep back. We were told there might not be enough O2 in the tank, but was never told to do an O2 test, just add more current, but told not to use bubble stones ( apparently they said that the bubbles collect waste at the top of the water surface like a protein skimmer, but with out a way to remove the waste, like a skimmer does). The red aglae has since cleared, but when we tried a piece of new coral in there, it died and any new fish also die.
We now use R/O water thinking the water here might be the cause of fish and coral death, have done enough water changes that old water should not even been in the tank anymore, or atleast most of it is out. Nitrate, Nitrite and ammonia is at 0. ph is at 8.3 and water temp is 79. We use a refractometer to measure salinity and that is at 30ppm or 1.020sg. Hubby calibrates the refractometer every couple of weeks.
Okay, that's what I can remeber right now! Kinda hard with my motor-mouth daughter yapping! Thanks!

 

[tiberius]

Originally Posted by rabbit_72
A little background history on this tank....
... We made sure it was cleaned without using chemicals, of course, purchased Emperor 280 BIO-Wheel filter, SeaClone Protein Skimmer, 2 AquaClear 50 gallon powerheads and 1 Maxi-Jet powerhead, Visi-Therm Stealth Heater (100 watt). We use a mag-float algae scaper and run carbon 24/7. We "seeded" the tank by using water from the 55 gallon tank, substrate and live rock from the 55 gallon. This ran this way with a couple of fish for about 3 months. So from March to the end of June, we only had live rock and a couple of fish in it. We were told not to put in a UV sterilizer in as the uv rays would destroy any of the inverebrate food we would add to the tank. We purchased coral from a frag swap (like the one we are going to this year) and had quite a beautiful tank. For 4 months we had no problems. The corals opened beautifully everyday and the starburst polyps were spreading as were the button polyps. I loved it and was very proud.
Then, red algae began growing and multiplied very quickly and we were told it was a bacterial infection and were advised to purchase Chemi-Clean, which we did and treated the tank for a few weeks until the red algae disappeared. But the corals were dying one by one as did my fish and hermit crabs and emerald crab. Amazingly, the snails and conch lived. The two remaining clown fish were moved to the quarentine tank before we moved to our new house in October. By the time we moved, all corals had died except for a few that were barely hanging on. we thought they were recovering, but now they just look the same as then. After we moved we still had to dose the tank with Chemi-Clean again as the red algae began to creep back. We were told there might not be enough O2 in the tank, but was never told to do an O2 test, just add more current, but told not to use bubble stones ( apparently they said that the bubbles collect waste at the top of the water surface like a protein skimmer, but with out a way to remove the waste, like a skimmer does). The red aglae has since cleared, but when we tried a piece of new coral in there, it died and any new fish also die.
We now use R/O water thinking the water here might be the cause of fish and coral death, have done enough water changes that old water should not even been in the tank anymore, or atleast most of it is out. Nitrate, Nitrite and ammonia is at 0. ph is at 8.3 and water temp is 79. We use a refractometer to measure salinity and that is at 30ppm or 1.020sg. Hubby calibrates the refractometer every couple of weeks.
Okay, that's what I can remeber right now! Kinda hard with my motor-mouth daughter yapping! Thanks!

Your salinity is way too low!!! I run mine at 1.025.
Since you really don't have anything flourishing in the tank, I would dump half the water and put in 1.030 and see how it is after that. Also, calibrate your refractometer with the R/O water and get the zero.

 

[rabbit_72]

I there any truth to the bubble stone thing I mentioned? Should we add it to increase the O2 or leave it out?

 

[tiberius]

Originally Posted by rabbit_72
I there any truth to the bubble stone thing I mentioned? Should we add it to increase the O2 or leave it out?
I have had a bubble wand in my tank for many years. It is true that it can cause a film on the surface. But, I have always had my power heads pointed to the surface of the water so I didn't have a problem. But, when I did my water changes and shut the pumps off, I could see the "oil slick" on the surface. If you have a lot of movement on the water then you can do it to get the tank up to par then just take it out later. The only reason why I took mine out is because I hooked up my protein skimmer again to try and help my new corals out. I only had the one good pump and I tried to get it split to do both and it wouldn't work right.
I don't remember if you have PH pointed to the surface or how many you have. But, just having the water moving like an ocean will cause the gases to exchange.

 

[rabbit_72]

I have 3 powerheads... in a 29 gallon. 2 of them are rated for up to 50 gallon tanks and 1 of those 2 has a FLO Rotating Deflector on it. The 3rd powerhead points directly to the surface. Also have hang-on filter and protein skimmer that also helps keep the surface water moving. Does this sound like enough? Been thinking of getting another rotaing deflector for the other large powerhead. For a 29 gal. tank, we figured this was enough movement.

 

[tiberius]

As long as the surface water is moving pretty good it should be ok. Do you have a couple of decent salt water fish stores near you? I would see about taking a couple of bowls of water to each of them and have them test for everything. They might have a dissolved oxygen test kit. You could have a faulty test kit.
You can see about your oxygen levels before you mess with a bubble wand.
Do you have anything in the tank now, besides the live rock?

 

[ophiura]

OK...so there are several correlations here.
One is that things went down hill with the Chemi Clean. Did you dose that for a 29g tank, or for less (with rocks, it is not 29g).
I am also concerned if your specific gravity is 1.020, which is fatally low for inverts.
You do a lot of water changes it seems, which can be an issue in and of itself.
How do you mix your water? This may have been covered but I don't see it at the moment. The buckets are not used for anything else?
I'm real concerned about the chemi clean. You must have a lot of circulation and aeration when using it. And regardless of what people may say, overdosing can cause problems.
Anything that you smell in the air, can get into the tank. So any cleaners, air fresheners, paint, etc are potential problems. I do find it interesting that the tank with the problems is isolated in one area.
Did you change any equipment at about the same time, and have you ever checked for stray voltage?

 

[rabbit_72]

We currenty has snails, live rock (which isn't as colorful as it used to be), a conch and the half-alive corals. Would put up pics if I could figure out how to do that.

 

[rabbit_72]

Hubby is checking the salinity right now. I can't read all those little lines in the refractometer, so I may have been slightly off. He says it read 1.025 this time. What should the salinity be at? His anemomes in his 55 gal tank have the same salinity and are doing great.
Hubby says we may not have overdosed the tank as he got dosing info from the store personel we normally frequent. Reading the instrutions it states one level scoop per 10 gals (comes with kit). After 48 hours, repeat if needed. Must change water (20%) after every treatment (48 hours). To keep aqaurium clear, reat once a month. So, he was told to only use a scoop and a half for this tank because lady at store does not like to overdose.
As for water changes, the last one was Memorial Day and was about 50% due to the problems we've had. But before that, hubby says he has done them about every 2 weeks. Buckets are used for fish tanks only, with separate ones for dirty and clean water.
The only smell in my computer room comes from the tank and smells like the ocean. Not bad, but clean ocean. I never spray cleaners in here or even furniture polish. Hubby does most mantanience on tanks because my hands spend most time with cleaning, kids and babies! Plus hand lotion and such. Unless I haven't done anything for a while, will I put my hands in the tank. And he uses rubber gloves made for aquarium use.
As far as changing equipment, we have changed nothing, only added a powerhead. Hubby scrubbed out filter box about 2 months ago, without chemicals. And how does one check for stray voltage? I was thinking about sticking my tongue in there and see if I get electrocuted! Hehe!
And the times we do try a fishy in there, it breathes rapidly. Is this from lack of O2. Could the remaining corals send off any sort of toxin?

 

[tiberius]

I know of zoos and paly that have toxins. But, I would think that running carbon as you do would eliminate them.
The salinity is good at 1.025 since you want to have corals in there.
So you only have 1 store to shop at? That really stinks since you have to rely on their advice for your tank.
I just wonder if you just rushed the tank and never let it cycle completely. You might just have to wait another month and check your parameters then. No more water changes.
Are you certain that your kids aren't putting stuff in the tank?
They are very curious and might want to see what happens if this is in the tank. Or if they just stick their hands in the water.
I hate those words stray voltage. Makes my skin crawl! LOL I have 16 volts in my tank. I am not going to do anything about it. I got a voltage meter and put the black probe in the ground of the outlet and put the red one in the tank. Don't freak if you see anything! If you do then unplug 1 power head at a time and read the meter. You could have a power head that has a break in it and causing current to be in the water.
I went through this a few months ago. I can unplug everything in my tank take out all 4 PHs and unplug my lights and I still get 14-16 volts in there. I have a yellow tang and I would think he would be upset the most if there was a problem. He is going on 7 years. Plus, my clowns keep making babies!! So I brought everything back to the store.
You said you drip acclimate them right? Then they are stressed when they are breathing that rapid. Can be low O2 also.
You don't use Windex on the front glass right? But, then you could have problems with your other tanks if you did the same to them.