Well Iowans, if nothing else you're entertaining!

[geoj]

something i notice a lot in news from the us or political discussions is the jump to these bigger motives that the left and right throw at each other.  i find it unique in a way to american politics when i hear that obama, for example, had done this or that and that somehow = a grander marxist, leftist agenda to ruin freedom or whatever.  here in canada we currently have a conservative gov that are implementing aged american style crime bills that were modeled on what texas used to do with mega prisons, harsh sentences and that lot.  officials in texas have written to our gov telling them that approach failed and despite stats showing canadian crime rates, especially serious crime, are at 20-30 year lows the gov is going ahead with their bills all the same.  anyway, what i want to get at is that those opposed to these crime bills dont necessarily jump to the conclusion that the prime minister is trying to turn canada into a police state or that there is a huge right wing plot against the citizens.  hes simply a stubborn a-hole with some bad ideas on how to govern.  i wonder whats diff about american politics that there seems to be this sensationalising of the issues by both sides?  
 
 
Tyrannical governance is why this country was founded. Tyrannical governance is why people immigrate here. So as a people we are outraged, when the bungling fool politicians destroy, the freedoms that were won through the blood sacrifices, of are ancestors...

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihoa http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3448119
something i notice a lot in news from the us or political discussions is the jump to these bigger motives that the left and right throw at each other. i find it unique in a way to american politics when i hear that obama, for example, had done this or that and that somehow = a grander marxist, leftist agenda to ruin freedom or whatever. here in canada we currently have a conservative gov that are implementing aged american style crime bills that were modeled on what texas used to do with mega prisons, harsh sentences and that lot. officials in texas have written to our gov telling them that approach failed and despite stats showing canadian crime rates, especially serious crime, are at 20-30 year lows the gov is going ahead with their bills all the same. anyway, what i want to get at is that those opposed to these crime bills dont necessarily jump to the conclusion that the prime minister is trying to turn canada into a police state or that there is a huge right wing plot against the citizens. hes simply a stubborn a-hole with some bad ideas on how to govern. i wonder whats diff about american politics that there seems to be this sensationalising of the issues by both sides?
When the further away we get from our original form of government the worse off we are you gotta wonder why someone would want to continue down that path.

 

[nihoa]

yes youre right. i was being lazy looking it up again cus as far as the larger point there went it didnt matter as much. but it was republican jerry madden, judge john creuzot as well as 'republican governors and state legislators' for texas, south carolina and ohio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3448128
On a side note, "officials in texas" would by no means be a good thing to go on. Seeing that, "officials in texas" cover a whole spectrum of belief structure. And particularly with democrats, and to an extent with republicans, people will give more credence to their theology than actual statistics in determining if something was successful or not. (see harry reid saying that Rich people don't hire anyone)

 

[nihoa]

yeah and i guess therein lies my point. there is an assumption there that the actions of the politician are more than a simple style of governing and are willful acts against the country. every country has political parties that favour higher spending or taxation and those that advocate the opposite. to me, as i said, that is just different approaches to managing a state and what surprises me about america sometimes is the jump to malicious intent to fulfill a covert agenda. interesting to think about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448142
When the further away we get from our original form of government the worse off we are you gotta wonder why someone would want to continue down that path.

 

[beth]

Nihoa, as I said before, what you hear is the vocal MINORITY; by no means most Americans. Nor do most politicians think that way either.
However, that stuff does make for good media fodder (and to some, good discussion on forums) since it is more exciting to hate each other then just have a boring difference in political approach.
Saying all that, there are some things happening now, and have happened in recent past, that are very scary to informed Americans. The recent law passed (National Defense Authorization Act) allowing the government to detain American citizens indefinitely and strip citizens of our constitutional rights is absolutely horrifying.
This, along with the Patriot Act, which seems will never come to an end, has made the leader of the free world, USA, go to the back of the bus. We are mirroring our totalitarian enemies more and more.
The solution is to stop hating and take this to the voting booth. Every politician who passed the continuation of the Patriot Act and voted in the NDAA, needs to be booted from running our country. Every last one them.

 

[darthtang aw]

what freedoms were lost through the patriot act?

 

[xcali1985]

There all bums... Republican, Democrats, Independents... they all have their own agendas.
The problem is, it's always about the next election. They go against their own interest just to carry a party line. I applaud when someone in the party goes against the pack, it shows independent thinking and a willingness to look past what everyone else wants and do what the people who elected them into office wants.
Another problem is, when you make money, as all the Congress people do you hang out with people that make money. Your interest become their interest, the little man doesn't matter.
So if its Republican, Democrat, or a Martian once the fat cats start throwing money his way, it won't matter.
OBAMA, RICK, MITT, PAUL, won't matter. The problem is the establishment is screwed up.
Do I have the answers........ I don't think anyone does.....

 

[darthtang aw]

There all bums... Republican, Democrats, Independents... they all have their own agendas.
The problem is, it's always about the next election. They go against their own interest just to carry a party line. I applaud when someone in the party goes against the pack, it shows independent thinking and a willingness to look past what everyone else wants and do what the people who elected them into office wants.
Another problem is, when you make money, as all the Congress people do you hang out with people that make money. Your interest become their interest, the little man doesn't matter. 
So if its Republican, Democrat, or a Martian once the fat cats start throwing money his way, it won't matter.
OBAMA, RICK, MITT, PAUL, won't matter. The problem is the establishment is screwed up.
Do I have the answers........ I don't think anyone does.....
sometimes voting with what your constituents want is not what is best......sometimes politicians vote against the populace because it is the right thing to do...in the grand scheme of this country.....think...civil rights act.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448300
what freedoms were lost through the patriot act?
Search and seizure of Americans' property without probable cause—violation of the Amend. IV
Americans can be jailed indefinitely without being charged or given a trial where they are allowed to confront witnesses against them—violation of Amend. VI
Monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity—violation of Amend. I
Monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes—violation of Amend. VI

 

[oscardeuce]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihoa http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448225
yeah and i guess therein lies my point. there is an assumption there that the actions of the politician are more than a simple style of governing and are willful acts against the country. every country has political parties that favour higher spending or taxation and those that advocate the opposite. to me, as i said, that is just different approaches to managing a state and what surprises me about america sometimes is the jump to malicious intent to fulfill a covert agenda. interesting to think about.
The intent is to epand gov't power beyond the Consitiution. Plain and simple. Our Constitution prevents a socialist nanny state, yet somehow we get there bit by bit since Wilson in 1912.

 

[mantisman51]

Look at the EPA. Obama has announced he is expanding their role to regulate every type of "pollution" and has, by executive order, expanded their enforcement. Meaning, without Congressional or court approval they can write new law and impose penalties-including making these global warming treaties de facto U.S. law without the consent of the Senate. Nope, we all are just paranoid extreme righties.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448335
Search and seizure of Americans' property without probable cause—violation of the Amend. IV
Americans can be jailed indefinitely without being charged or given a trial where they are allowed to confront witnesses against them—violation of Amend. VI
Monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity—violation of Amend. I
Monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes—violation of Amend. VI
Do you know of an American citizen who has been subjected to the above abuses?

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448335
Search and seizure of Americans' property without probable cause—violation of the Amend. IV
Americans can be jailed indefinitely without being charged or given a trial where they are allowed to confront witnesses against them—violation of Amend. VI
Monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity—violation of Amend. I
Monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes—violation of Amend. VI
Do you know of an American citizen who has been subjected to the above abuses?
For goodness sakes, reef. What the heck difference does that make?? Given the total disregard of American constitutional rights we have experienced in the past decade, you think the government will announce such activities on Fox News?? The point is that THE GOVERNMENT CAN legally do all the things I mention, all of which is in violation of the Constitution.
Here is the problem with Republicans. As long as Republicans take away American rights, as in the PA and the NDAA that were authored by Republicans, then it is OK. It must be right if they did it! BS. So much for Republicans supposedly taking up the banner of preserving the constitution. And while you guys here on the forums will say you are conservatives, you will all pick a Republican candidate to vote for who will do more of the same.
What is worst, squandering away taxpayer $$$, or demolishing the constitutional rights of American citizens???? The "crazy guy" is sounding better and better every day.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448476
For goodness sakes, reef. What the heck difference does that make?? Given the total disregard of American constitutional rights we have experienced in the past decade, you think the government will announce such activities on Fox News?? The point is that THE GOVERNMENT CAN legally do all the things I mention, all of which is in violation of the Constitution.
Here is the problem with Republicans. As long as Republicans take away American rights, as in the PA and the NDAA that were authored by Republicans, then it is OK. It must be right if they did it! BS. So much for Republicans supposedly taking up the banner of preserving the constitutional. And while you guys here on the forums will say you are conservatives, you will all pick a Republican candidate to vote for who will do more of the same.
What is worst, squandering away taxpayer $$$, or demolishing the constitutional rights of American citizens???? The "crazy guy" is sounding better and better every day.
This is the closest you and I have come to agreement.
I don't support Dr Paul on specifics, but I do on approach

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448476
For goodness sakes, reef. What the heck difference does that make?? Given the total disregard of American constitutional rights we have experienced in the past decade, you think the government will announce such activities on Fox News?? The point is that THE GOVERNMENT CAN legally do all the things I mention, all of which is in violation of the Constitution.
Here is the problem with Republicans. As long as Republicans take away American rights, as in the PA and the NDAA that were authored by Republicans, then it is OK. It must be right if they did it! BS. So much for Republicans supposedly taking up the banner of preserving the constitution. And while you guys here on the forums will say you are conservatives, you will all pick a Republican candidate to vote for who will do more of the same.
What is worst, squandering away taxpayer $$$, or demolishing the constitutional rights of American citizens???? The "crazy guy" is sounding better and better every day.
IMO this little point you made is as off base as the one where everyone is asking presidential candidates if they think States have the right to ban a contraceptive.
keep in mind, there is legal precedent to suspending constitutional rights in a time of war. (that being said, no one has declared war here). I personally think you're buying into some dooms day legal scenarios that are as out there as say, verifying citizen's status when putting a presidential candidate on a ballot...

 

[beth]

With acceptance of that "legal precedent" you describe, then we live in a country where anything is possible---including putting aside the basis for our country's existence, the freedoms that are supposedly god-given.
The potential with accepting exceptions to our constitution, is that we can evolve into something very ugly. Such as concentration camps put together for Americans of Japanese decent in late 40's by our government. Our government is charged with upholding the constitution, not setting in motion precedents to avoid following it.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448476
For goodness sakes, reef. What the heck difference does that make?? Given the total disregard of American constitutional rights we have experienced in the past decade, you think the government will announce such activities on Fox News?? The point is that THE GOVERNMENT CAN legally do all the things I mention, all of which is in violation of the Constitution.
Here is the problem with Republicans. As long as Republicans take away American rights, as in the PA and the NDAA that were authored by Republicans, then it is OK. It must be right if they did it! BS. So much for Republicans supposedly taking up the banner of preserving the constitution. And while you guys here on the forums will say you are conservatives, you will all pick a Republican candidate to vote for who will do more of the same.
What is worst, squandering away taxpayer $$$, or demolishing the constitutional rights of American citizens???? The "crazy guy" is sounding better and better every day.
The only admissible evidence that can be gathered with a warrantless wire tap under the Patriot act is an act of terrorism. A person could admit to killing Hoffa, fixing the 69 Cubs series game and stealing the hope diamond and it would be inadmissible in court. And despite the propaganda the Patriot act was passed with strong majorities from both parties, hardly a "republican" creation.
Call me funny but I really don't have a issue with the government listening in to a phone conversation (without a warrant) I might happen to have with a person overseas who they believe is a terrorist.

 

[beth]

I can only answer by suggesting that you read the constitution of our land. Just this and that qualification, should not be acceptable. But apparently it is. Once you allow an out for "this", then you can expect an out for "that" in the future.
If that is ok with you, fine; but then don't be a hypocrite by showing outrage of perceived violations of the constitution in other topics posted in this forum just because those "violations" are put on by the other party.
Its not about what you or I are ok with. Its about upholding our country's founding laws. Otherwise, its ok to tear it down and start over, modify it at will (at the convenience of government). Isn't that what you guys are constantly trying to say that the other side does? Where exactly is the limited government in allowing government to bypass the law of the land just to make it easier to find terrorists? Do you really trust government that much? If so, then you should be for big government.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3447500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3447427
I swear the Republican voters out there are bending over backwards to try and make sure the candidate they choose will be incredibly easy for Obama to beat in the general election! RICK SANTORUM? Really people, RICK SANTORUM? The guy who

thinks homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia, are the same thing; thinks we should bomb Iran immediately, thinks we should create "AIDS housing units", says the reasons priests raped children in Boston is because of the "leftist and liberals from MIT and Harvard"; calls global warming junk science, and lastly thinks that "contraception is a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be." Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 Iowa runner up, Rick Santorum!
I'm not thrilled to be voting for Obama again, but given the ridiculous choices being trotted out of the stable from the right, I don't really see much of a choice at the moment...
lmao! if that is not contraception...then what is contaception? global warming as a process man can prevent is junk science. name the last catastrophic weather related disaster man was able to prevent.....can we stop the sky from falling?
links with the comments in context for all others I would like to see.
if betty crocker posts again i will be surprised.
darth (cupcakes cause fat people) Tang
I believe I found most, if not all the comments from his Wikipedia page (which includes reliable links).
I don't think anyone was arguing about what "contraception" was or was not, just that he feels that it " is a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."
By that sound logic, he should probably never take another pill or have a medical procedure, because for shame if he does something against the "way things are supposed to be" (i.e. what God would want).
If you really think humans aren't adversely affecting the global climate than I don't know what to tell you. That's one of those things you either believe or you don't. However, as an avid scuba diver myself, and someone who knows a little about reefs, I can tell you first hand that SOMETHING is bleaching and killing them. If you want to call it a happy coincidence, that's your choice, but it also makes you look like an idiot.
Lastly, I would much rather you call me "Duncan Hines", as their cakes are much tastier.
And come on Darth, it's all junk science that says cupcakes cause fat people. I bet Al Gore told you that, and we all know how trustworthy that guy is!

 

[cipher43]

If you couldnt tell from my profile pic I am a native Iowegian and i could care less about Santorum cause the fact is i really didn't know he was running till the votes came out LOL .... of course i avoid the tv anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448308
There all bums... Republican, Democrats, Independents... they all have their own agendas.
The problem is, it's always about the next election. They go against their own interest just to carry a party line. I applaud when someone in the party goes against the pack, it shows independent thinking and a willingness to look past what everyone else wants and do what the people who elected them into office wants.
Another problem is, when you make money, as all the Congress people do you hang out with people that make money. Your interest become their interest, the little man doesn't matter.
So if its Republican, Democrat, or a Martian once the fat cats start throwing money his way, it won't matter.
OBAMA, RICK, MITT, PAUL, won't matter. The problem is the establishment is screwed up.
Do I have the answers........ I don't think anyone does.....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THAT MANY.
best thing to do is get rid of both the parties. it seems to be a never ending blame the other part game that is really annoying. IT'S BOTH YOUR FAULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining/20#post_3448847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3447500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389799/well-iowans-if-nothing-else-youre-entertaining#post_3447427
I swear the Republican voters out there are bending over backwards to try and make sure the candidate they choose will be incredibly easy for Obama to beat in the general election! RICK SANTORUM? Really people, RICK SANTORUM? The guy who

thinks homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia, are the same thing; thinks we should bomb Iran immediately, thinks we should create "AIDS housing units", says the reasons priests raped children in Boston is because of the "leftist and liberals from MIT and Harvard"; calls global warming junk science, and lastly thinks that "contraception is a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be." Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 Iowa runner up, Rick Santorum!
I'm not thrilled to be voting for Obama again, but given the ridiculous choices being trotted out of the stable from the right, I don't really see much of a choice at the moment...
lmao! if that is not contraception...then what is contaception? global warming as a process man can prevent is junk science. name the last catastrophic weather related disaster man was able to prevent.....can we stop the sky from falling?
links with the comments in context for all others I would like to see.
if betty crocker posts again i will be surprised.
darth (cupcakes cause fat people) Tang
I believe I found most, if not all the comments from his Wikipedia page (which includes reliable links).
I don't think anyone was arguing about what "contraception" was or was not, just that he feels that it " is a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."
By that sound logic, he should probably never take another pill or have a medical procedure, because for shame if he does something against the "way things are supposed to be" (i.e. what God would want).
If you really think humans aren't adversely affecting the global climate than I don't know what to tell you. That's one of those things you either believe or you don't. However, as an avid scuba diver myself, and someone who knows a little about reefs, I can tell you first hand that SOMETHING is bleaching and killing them. If you want to call it a happy coincidence, that's your choice, but it also makes you look like an idiot.
Lastly, I would much rather you call me "Duncan Hines", as their cakes are much tastier.
And come on Darth, it's all junk science that says cupcakes cause fat people. I bet Al Gore told you that, and we all know how trustworthy that guy is!
makes me think about this LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnFJ8cHAlco