Wet/Dry...lets clarify this once and for all...

[jakepilot]

I found this quote on an aquarium website--
"Another popular myth from fish stores and unexperienced reefers is that a wet/dry or trickle filter is needed. This is untrue and will actually become a nitrate factory, trapping debris and slowly having it decay fouling your water. The only man made filter you need is a protein skimmer."
I know that DSB and LR are great filters too, but what is the true validity to this quote...I read the Thread "bioballs are nitrate factories" and many people on there either agreed or disagreed with the above quote, so what is the real answer, is the quote above true or are Wet/Dry filters great filters to have?--Jake

 

[mac]

Well Jake, you are probably not going to get full consensus or final resolution on this here either; but here is my take on the subject:
The article is true to the extent that a wet/dry is not NEEDED (assuming one has adequate lr, dsb, or equivalent bio. filtration)and a protene skimmer. However, my 20 years plus first hand experience conflicts with the statment that the wet/dry actually contributes to No3. I use wet/dry on 2 of my tanks (just because I have them) and my No3 levels are constantly <5ppm.

 

[cadbury]

I have heard that as well, I'm not that experianced in it, but I have done some research and i've heard that using a sump would be better. Aslo by having a protein skimmer, it takes away alot of the waters needed nutrients. The ideal method is to use a ecosystem with mud. I've heard alot of good things about this method and I'm presently saving to get one soon for my 180.

 

[brooklyn johnny]

This is a huge issue recently. Here is my opinion. Saying wet/drys are a "nitrate factory" is true only to the point that they cycle nitrogen from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate with nitrate as the final product. Biological filters, whether they be dsb, lr, miracle mud, etc. that offer anaerobic zones for denitrifying bacteria complete the nitrogen cycle with the end product as nitrogen gas. So I believe this theory came from tanks where wet/drys were the only means of biological filtration, with no anaerobic zones, leaving nitrate to build-up. I don't use wet/drys anymore, but their is theoretically no way they can add to the amount of wastes or nitrate in your system, but rather are just inefficient at converting nitrates to gas.

 

[pat]

ok not to take sides on this delicate subject, but.......all that i have in my 55 reef is about 80 lbsLR, bout 3 inches sand bed, sump with no wet dry, just macro algae and sand, and a very inexpensive skimmer. i have numerous inverts, tons of coral, an anenome, 1 clown fish, one flame angel and one purple firefish. i know that the bio load is not big at all, but every ammonia, 'trites, and 'trates are all 0. the fish are really only to draw your eye from one thing to another. well thats it i didn't take sides, this is just what works for me.

 

[kris]

I hope lots of people reply here--because time and time again I hear people saying you can't keep a good salt tank with out the almighty wet/dry. It's nice to hear from others too, who have dared to go without.
Heres my.02 worth -any filter type designed for biological filtration, and containing bio type media whether it be bio-balls, noodles, rings, stars, plastic or ceramic or whatever- is capable of becoming a "trate factory". I don't care if it's a $500 wet/dry system or a $50 hang on unit, it needs proper maintenance to avoid it becoming more of a harm than a help.
Right or wrong that's my opinion

 

[fshhub]

i have to agree with anthem a bit, the only thing i can't figure, is if the garbage is on the wet dry, how in the devil is the dsb supposed to break it down farther?, just like skimming, does not remove nitrates, but the nutrients that case them, so i am kinda torn here, trying to justify it
however, with a good wet dry and skimmer you cna have a well maintained tank as well, if everything is properly maintained, and with very aggressive fish(like sharks) i would even use one(maybe, not saying i know all, but most of you know how i look at wet dry's)
anthem and i had a debate recently over this and his logic does make sense, to an extent, but then again, maybe i am trying to read too much into them too

 

[fshhub]

i more agree with the above post saying that even here you will probably not get total satifaction on this topic, many of us have greatly varying postions on hte topic

 

[jakepilot]

are wet/drys better or worse than canister filters

 

[rhomer]

jakepilot, that's a question I've also wondered??
Anyone want to take a stab at that one?

 

[bluto]

Bottom Line....
A well designed wet/dry and a DSB should have the same nitrate readings as LR and a DSB.
And as I stated in the previous thread on this subject, if Detritus is the issue with wet/dry's...I fail to see how Bio-wheels (a sometimes maligned form of biological filtration) should have any detritus build-up issues at all. Now...whether the various forms of biowheel filters supply the nescessary flow-rates for a large system is another issue entirely.
With regard to skimmers...why wouldn't you want to take as much of the crap (for lack of a better description) out of your system as possible BEFORE it has to be broken down? That's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
Bluto

 

[jakepilot]

so how good are canister filters then.. and honestly is a skimmer good or bad, bc i have also heard that they pull alot of nutrients out of the water too..??

 

[fshhub]

IMO, the wet dry's are far better than canisters by a long shot, and skimmers are one of the best tools you can get, almost vital, sure systems do fine without them, but they do make the job much much easier, and dont' remove things that you can't replace easily, but the main thing being they do remove most of the garbage

 

[kris]

<img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" />
The more I learn sometimes I think I'm just getting more confused!!!
So anthem, you're suggesting canisters only be used as mechanical filters?? If so, they would not be worth anything--there are cheaper easier ways of simply removing particals.
So some are saying now that skimmers are not good because they take TOO MUCH away from the system, like "needed nutrients"?? who's needed nutrients are we talking about here, the algae's????
Also--how is it that will all the different ways to bio-filter some systems get to nitrate point and then the trates just keep building and others finish the cycle converting it into the gas?? Exactly what piece of equipment or whatever finishes it?? Is it the skimmer that finishes the job or the lr or what?? I also THINK dissolved oxygen plays a part in finishing it, but have thus far been unable to verify that.
As far as what is really better the canister or wet-dry? Maybe it's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie-pop..
The world may never know
Although you could take a poll, I suppose

I love this board!! you really do learn something new everyday--I think I'm getting addicted again though, especially when interesting topics like this come around. Oh, well once a sw junkie always a sw junkie <img src="graemlins//yeahright.gif" border="0" alt="[yeahright]" />

 

[predator]

Well, I personally use a wet/dry as well as beefed up biological filtration. I do believe that you either need to some what keep the wet/dry clean. Or use a pre-filter to keep it free of detritus. I filter my water a great deal before it ever comes to my wet/dry. Right off the drain is a nylon mesh filter sleeve after that it runs through two of those thick cloth filter socks and finally through a filter pad then to the bio-balls. My wet/dry chamber stays clean and tidy. I also have a 4in dsb and 2lb per gallon of lr. It all comes down to what you believe in, what you are trying to accomplish and what works best for you.

 

[taku]

I use a canister filter, a skimmer, a wet/dry/bio-wheel, lots of live rock, and lots of live sand. They all do a great job on something specific and I believe a little bit of every filtration meathod is needed to promote the best environment for my critters.

 

[broomer5]

 

[kris]

thanks for the detailed info Ed--appreciated your taking the time greatly.

 

[musipilot]

On my FOWLR (54 gal) I use a dsb, hang on protein skimmer, and lots of water flow as my biological and chemical filtration. To remove PARTICLES from the water I use a Fluval 404 (canister) with ONLY the foam media, which I rinse once a month. This combination has worked great, along with keeping the bio load low.