Wet dry/ sump diagram help!!!

[jasenhicks]

For those who want to learn about the humble beginnings of the wonderful hobby we all enjoy i encourage you to read anything by Robert P.L. Straughan. He was the first american to keep saltwater fish and was the first to recognize the nutrient cycle... and yes he did it with a calcerous substrate and simple undergravel filter. I also highly encourage everyone to read the following books:
1. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, Robert M. Fenner
2. The Natural Reef Keeper, John H. Tullock
They give a lot of good explanations, ideas, etc about our hobby and a nice short history lesson on the begginnings. They also give good PROS and CONS on ALL types of filtration/stocking/etc.
jasen

 

[reeferdc]

Whats a trickle plate??????

 

[oceana]

Originally Posted by reeferDC
Whats a trickle plate??????

listen to Jasen he know all you need to know, apparently just about every major contributer to this board are incorrect. and books with info some writen 20 years ago are better source for info.

not saying those are bad books they are a great starting point but much of the info has become very outdated. they did not keep anywhere near the kinds of livestock we do now. do what you will but there are better ways

 

[matty0h_52]

in responce to UGF i would like to put my too sence in on the subject on some pros and cons i just read about.
PRO's first-
No Moving Parts, Simple To Install & Operate
UGFs are Invisible
UGFs are Effective
UGFs are Inexpensive to Acquire & Operate:
UGFs Are Versatile---Use With Powerheads, etc.
UGFs are Hard to Maintain, Especially Long-Term
now the CONS
UGFs Can Produce Noxious Gases—Creating Dead Zones (one of the biggest reasons why iu did not get one when i first started)
With UGF Use Fishes Can Get Trapped Under The Plates
Undergravel Filters May Present A Problem With Plants
Its all reletive and i think if your old school then stick with Old school product. But be shure to keep in mind that this is a new time and new advancements in technology have made it possible to duplicate a UGF. And even be more ificiante.

 

[jasenhicks]

I'm not saying that there arent cons to the undergravel... im just saying its a possibility. The books btw are still pretty new and DO discuss new wet/dry, berlin, plenum filtration, HOB, etc. They discuss all the possibilities. I'm by far no expert, but i do know chemistry/biology and aquariums rather well. Im just trying to be helpful and provide options rather than oh you have to go with a wet/dry because thats what only the real keepers do. And ive never seen a fish get caught under the plate, thats weird, also sandy beds can create noxious gases as well due to dead spots... thats not only limited to the undergravel filter.
Anyways... reeferDC to answer your question about a trickle plate, its divider suspended above the bioballs that has a lot of small holes in it, like a showerhead. Its purouse in life is to divert all that water from the tank to flow over all the bioballs. It prevents a solid stream of water from dumping onto only a small portion of the bioballs.

 

[squidd]

PRO's first-
No Moving Parts, Simple To Install & Operate
UGFs are Invisible
UGFs are Effective
UGFs are Inexpensive to Acquire & Operate:
UGFs Are Versatile---Use With Powerheads, etc.
UGFs are Hard to Maintain, Especially Long-Term
now the CONS
I think the maintainence schedual for UGF should be under the "Cons"...and probably the biggest reason NOT to use or reccomend one to a new hobbiest...

 

[squidd]

if you do a wet/dry forget about using a carbon filter, its not needed

i have never been so surprised with the lack of intellegence before.
Seems to be a contradiction here...:thinking:

 

[matty0h_52]

ya ya my bad i was typeing and talking on a phone confrence at the same time.

 

[jasenhicks]

Squidd... are you serious?! I have never used carbon in my saltwater tank.... i have a wet/dry and a good protein skimmer with live rock and a plenum.... never had any issues whatsover.... im surprised that you would consider that a lack of intellegence... there are many fish keepers out and about that dont use carbon whatsover unless they need it to remove chemicals for disease treatment. Wow.

 

[squidd]

Yes, actually I'm quite serious...The accusation of "lack of intelligence" was put forth first by you and I must say I was a bit taken aback by that...as I'm sure a number of well versed and relatively intelligent people on this board were...
And what caught my eye was the incongruity of of relating the use of a wet/dry (which is biological filtration) negating the use of carbon (which is chemical filtration) but then you recovered well with the suggestion of upgrading the skimmer, (which is actually a form of mechanical filtration) the three form a balanced system But aren't really "interchangeable"...
That small faux pa aside, You did present a balanced "opinion" on the various forms of filtration, saying each has a varity of pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses...most all of which I agree with...
I too have my "favorite" form of filtration, but do not have a problem explaining the workings of other types of systems...as long as it's presented in a balanced and fair assessment...and agree there are many paths to choose from and "one" system may not be the best form for every aquariest..."popular" on any particular board or not...
UGF can work(and has for many years etc..etc..) as can Biowheels, Canisters, W/Ds, DSBs (shudder

), Skimmers and Skimmerless, Plenums, Carbon, Pads, Reactors and Fluidized Beds...
Some are going to be "easier" to be successful with for the newcomer and others will perform to the expectations of the experianced aquariest once he/she understands the needs of a particular system...Personally, I'm not much for counting and maintaining bugs and worms and a balance varity of micro flora and fauna a DSB "REQUIRES" to be successfull and lean more toward the Alga Scrubber export of malnutrients thru the harvesting of Macros...(But I digress)
Without getting into the "arguement" of the benifits or "function" of carbon in a SW filtration system, and in the intrest of presenting a balanced and "intelligent" presentation of the various forms of filtration (which you have been doing) I humbly caution against blanket statements of "Not Needed" when presenting options/opinions..

 

[reeferdc]

ok so im ordering the parts for it now but I have a slightly different plan would this work?? I really need to know if all of this would be sufficient...
Ok I have a 10 gallon sump which im going to have a big carbon filter in, a protein skimmer for a 100 gallon tank, and im going to fill the bottem of the sump with alot of LR rubble.. Would all of this be sufficent filtration for a 75 gallon FO tank??? The only LR will be in the sump...
Also should I add an air stone for airation in teh sump??
Any help would be sweet,
Thanks for all teh help guys!!!!

 

[jasenhicks]

With all that, you should have plenty of filtration. More than enough. The flow through the sump will be adequate and an airstone shouldnt be necessary. Be advised to ensure your water level in the sump portion isnt maintained too high so that way in the event of a power failure you dont flood your floor!
Jasen

 

[beth]

We have little tolerance here for demeaning insults, so if there is a more intelligent [in your opinion] hobby community out there, you're welcome to visit there, rather than come here. No one in this hobby started out being "all-knowing".
Of course helping others and being a contributing member of the discussion forum is appreciated.

 

[reeferdc]

thanks jason!
Anyone els have some imput to weather this will work ok?? Also how many pounds of LR rubble will i need minimum???

 

[reeferdc]

I agree beth.

 

[reeferdc]

there is no need for you guys to fight.. This thread was started beacause I needed help with a sump plan.. lol

 

[kjord97]

you can put about 3 inches of agro sand in sump and then just buy about 10 lbs of rubble to throw in there. You will be fine. Scratch the aeration idea, you dont need it. Also throw some plant algae in there, and a small light so your algea will grow.

 

[jasenhicks]

I apologize to all for using those words. They were inappropriate, and poorly chosen. For that i am truly sorry.
I do not claim to be all-knowing, although i can see how it could have been portrayed that way.
I do try and put good info in when i know a bit about it, and i am pretty good with the DIY projects as i am always working on them and looking up a lot of information regarding everyting with filtration, plumbing, and other techniques.
I hope that through this bit of a spat that we had on here we can all agree that there are hundreds of ways to do everything and there isnt a clear and consice best way with no faults.
Regarding your LR rubble reeferDC, go with as much as you can fit in the sump. Just my opinion. More is always better. Sounds like it may be turning into a small fuge though, but thats good too! Check my recent post on my newly setup fuge, you may like it and it could give you ideas. Goodluck!

 

[kjord97]

yup it is in the disclamier, to take views and opionins from 10 people before you come to your own conclusion.

 

[reeferdc]

Ok guys im gonna go get working on it ill be sure to post lots of pictures along the way..
Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!