What am I doing wrong?????

rykna

rykna

Active Member
I am trying to set up a 38g sump for my 15g DT. No matter what I do I cannot seem to get the water flow to equalize. I'm using flow regulators on each flow line.
Here's my set up:

I put the setup together earlier today. It ran fine for almost two hours, then the flow from the bottom became stronger than the top. Fortunately I was watching the tank at the time.
What could have changed the flow so suddenly?
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2809109
What kind of overflow are you using? Is it a U-tube or is the tank drilled?
I originally purchase this:

But was not able to equalize the flow with this either.
I wish it were drilled. It's a simple set up. I'm using the tubes and plastic bars from my old ehiem pro2:

That's why I got the water flow control valves. The intake pulls from gravity and the return comes from the pump. This is the second time I've tried to set up a sump...The first set up ended in 20 gallons of disaster every where.
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2809129
I originally purchase this:

But was not able to equalize the flow with this either.
I wish it were drilled. It's a simple set up. I'm using the tubes and plastic bars from my old ehiem pro2:

That's why I got the water flow control valves. The intake pulls from gravity and the return comes from the pump. This is the second time I've tried to set up a sump...The first set up ended in 20 gallons of disaster every where.
I hate to say it but I don't think that you are going to be able to use that old eheim equipment. I'm sure there are some DIY guys here who could tell you how to MacGuyver it but I'd go back to the U-tube overflow. With that, I'd start by leaving the valve completely open. Were you getting too much water in the sump or display when you were using the u-tube? I'm guessing that your return isn't strong enough to handle that overflow and thus you were getting too much water in the sump. If this is so, I'd take out one of the tubes and try it with the single tube.
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
I'm just using the tubing and the the 2 plastic attachments. Actually it was the DT that was starting to overflow. I think I may have found the problem. After shutting everything off and closing the flow valves to ensure the suction wouldn't pull more water through, I noticed that both of the flow valves were leaking. Just little drips...but enough to mess up the flow is what I guessing went wrong. Everything was fine for 2 hours, then flow got messed up possibly because the seals on the flow valves started to leak....you think that could have caused the problem?
 
matt b

matt b

Active Member
This is a VERY unsafe way to drain water to the sump. You NEED to use a overflow that is around the same GPH of your pump. Can you explain what will happen when the power goes out or if the pump starts to pump more then normal? Having a ball valve on the drain is NEVER a good idea.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Rykna, you need to use the OF box. You cannot get the flow to balance using ball valves. No way. Also, the DT will continue to drain and flood the floor without an overflow in place. It is very simple here's what you do.
Install the OF on the DT, then plumb down to the sump. Use pipe or flexible hose large enough to accommodate the flow. Terminate the pipe/hose just about an inch below the water line in the sump..Now on the return plumb that in using as short of length as possible and as few bends as possible. Installing your ball valve on this line is suggested, especially if your return pump is rated as high or higher than the OF.Bring this line up and over the top of the tank and and then do with it whatever you like. Now where this line terminates in the tank, right at or just below the water line. Drill a small hole in it. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, This will break the syphon when the power goes out. Now you have to prime the U tube before starting the system up. One more thing, you said you have 70 gph pump? This will definitely work with such a slow flow, however keep an eye on the U tube. They have a tendency to collect bubbles and then possibly break syphon with a flow that is not very rapid through it. It's not a problem, usually just tapping it clears it, but installing an aqualifter attached to the tube will keep it clear constantly.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
So wattsupdoc, what happens if the siphon does break for some reason on the overflow, does the whole sump full of water end up in the display and overflow onto her expensive wool carpeting?
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
The return pump will continue to pump and the tank will flood. But this is not going to happen when she sets it up right.
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2809396
Maybe something in here will spark and idea for you Rykna.........
********************
WOW!!! Awesome, thank you so much!!! I do much better with visual instructions.
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2809413
The return pump will continue to pump and the tank will flood. But this is not going to happen when she sets it up right.
Perfect
Now which one of you will volunteer to come to my house and help set it up
jk
I had the OF working, but I just couldn't get the extra air out. I was using the airline tubing, but wasn't successful. I'm apologize if I sound like a broken wheel, I'm just terrified of repeating my first set up disaster.
Luke: All right, I'll give it a try.
Yoda: No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.
Luke: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.
So I need to go back to the OF. Put the plumbing back together, drill a hole by the bottom of the intake flow...
#1: couldn't get the air out of the OF.
#2: not sure I put the OF together correctly. If I get a chance today I'll post a pic of how I have it set up.
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
Oh the other thing~the OF unit I purchased is a single OF, not the double OF in the picture.
 
kingsmith

kingsmith

Member
You can get rid of the air bubble by drilling a small hole to seal so when needed you can suck out the air(I think ths is described on Melsreef) or you can increase flow permanently or what I do is when I do my weekly water changes I pour the last gallon or so right into the overflow this forces the flow through so fast that any bubbles that accumulated get pulled out.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Now I have rather large hands and I will guess you, as the fairer gender, have smaller ones. That said I remember from my fresh water days taking the U-Tube, submersing it in the tank, putting a thumb over one end and while leaving the other end in the water putting the thumb end in the filter and letting go. This would start the siphon every time. Of course the tube had one end longer that the oght end so it was easier to do.
Oh by the way you sound stressed,
 
rykna

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2809616
Now I have rather large hands and I will guess you, as the fairer gender, have smaller ones. That said I remember from my fresh water days taking the U-Tube, submersing it in the tank, putting a thumb over one end and while leaving the other end in the water putting the thumb end in the filter and letting go. This would start the siphon every time. Of course the tube had one end longer that the other end so it was easier to do.
Oh by the way you sound stressed,

Thank you. The hug is much appreciated...do you have any Jack Daniel's?

I tried the thumb method, but the U-tube is of equal length on each side.
 
kingsmith

kingsmith

Member
Wait the siphon has not started yet
is water flowing into the overflow as you try to start it? Does the siphon start when you suck the air out? If you are using an air line and you stick it into the highest point and suck till siphon starts, but if water is not flowing to the overflow yet it won't stay going
 
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