What am I doing wrong?

[Sweetthang]

I have seen previous threads so I will try and answer everything up front so you don't have to ask in order to help. The following is what I have and what I do for my fish. I have live corals, invertebrates (shrimp, 1 hermit crab, snails and starfish), fish, live sand, and live rock and a bubble tip anemone. Today is Monday and I just went from an 80 gallon to the 125 on Sunday. I carried over all of the 80 gallon water and then added more water to fill the 125. Prior to the move the 80 has been set up for 7 months and the water it was set up with was from a friends 80 gallon that has been set up for many years. All 80 gallons was from the existing tank water.

(Problem)
My fish keep dying. I have a yellow tang that has out lived everyone and a tank upgrade. He survived ich, being in QT, and moving to the 125 and is the best fish that I have. I got some fish from someone on craigslist and they have been doing amazing. I have ordered fish from LiveAquria and they just don't seem to live long, as well as picked up fish from a local petstore. Some are DOA, which I know is a shipping stress or not healthy to begin with, and most die within the 14 days of having them. I acclimate them with a drip and then put them into the tank. I have acclimated and put them into QT as well and neither one works they always die.

(What I have)
125 gallon tank with no sump and no protein skimmer (I was told I could do the tank without it for a time as long as I had a good filtration system) It is not a drilled tank.
I have a 210 drilled tank that I can't set up until after I move which could be a year or so that I can have a sump for but obviously am unable to set it up at this time.

- 5 hang on the back filters two of which are double filters. One has live rock and a sponge in it, three have live rock and carbon filters (XL) and one is a HOB protein skimmer.

- 5 Powerheads, 2 are Koralia powerheads that I do not remember the rating for and 3 are the powerjets to which I cannot remember the brand of who makes them.

- 1 Heater (my heat stays at 74)

- I have a large metal halide light that covers the entire top of the fish tank. It has three ******** rows of lights, four exterior rows and several LEDS along the middle.

Everything is plugged into surge protectors and has been tested for random voltage and nothing seems amiss.

(Fish)
Yellow Tang
Indian Ocean Lyretail Anthias (Female)
Carberryi Anthias (Female)
Lyretail Anthias (Female)
Anthias (No idea what kind this was a CL fish, the guy told me it was a male)
Bi Color Dottyback
Firefish
Purple Firefish
Sailfin Blennie
Foxface rabbitfish
2 Sleeper bluedot Gobbies
Wheeler's Shrimp Goby
Red Scooter Dragonet
Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse

(Fish that died in a day to a week's time)
Blue Tang
Orange spotted goby
Yellow goby thing that sits on rocks and hops around
Clown Fish
Firefish
Coral Beauty
Copper Banded Butterfly
Chromis (My anemone usually was eating them)
Six Line Wrasse (It was the ich treatment that killed him)


(Invertebrates)
3 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
1 Blood Red Fire Shrimp
1 Sexy Anemone Shrimp
1 Peppermint Shrimp
50+ Nassarius Snail
50+ Banded Trochus Snail
2 Sand Sifting Seastars
1 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab
3 short spiny sea urchins

(Corals)
I have no idea what kind of corals I have, most were given to me and I just don't know anything about them to be honest. I have been trying to learn, but the corals seem to be doing great. Everything blooms when the lights are on and has good color and several have been growing. I even got some from someone on CL that just wanted to get rid of all his stuff and they were COVERED (you couldn't even see them) in thick green hair algae that I cleaned off and put in my tank and they have been doing great and opening.

3 green grass like things
Zoa's? They are green and I have a pink and red one as well
Polyps, brown and like a light tan color
a green mushroom that floats around all over despite my best attempt to stick it to a rock
Hammer coral
and some coral that I have no idea what it is but it looks cool and it is all wavy and it has doubled in size in 3 weeks

(Tank testing results)
74 Heat
1.022 Salinity (refractometer reading)
8.0 pH which I know is a bit low, I just picked up some pH up powder to mix with the water
0.25 Ammonia which is normally a reading of 0 however I just switched over to this 125 on Sunday and today is Monday
0.25 Nitrite
5.0 Nitrate

(Chemicals I use)
Sea Lab No 28 Automatic Replenisher
RO/DI Water Unit
Kent Marine Salt
(Just bought) pH UP
API Pimafix (Once) I tried this when adding new fish to see if it would help, it didn't.
API Melafix (Once) I tried this when adding new fish to see if it would help, it didn't.

After some research I have purchased other chemicals from Doctor's Foster and Smith website (have not used them yet but here is what I ordered)

Reef Bugs Complete
Kent Iodide
Kent Tech-M
Kent Purple Tech
Kent Kalkwasser
Phytoplex Phytoplankton
Zooplanktos

(Food) I add 3-4 garlic drops 1x a week to their food
Frozen Mysis Shrimp (2x day)
Frozen Bloodworms (2x day)
Frozen Brine Shrimp (2x day)
Frozen Spirulina (2x day)
Prime Reef Flakes (1x every other day)
Formula Two Flakes (1x every other day)
Seaweed Blend (Always on a veggie clip)
Green Marine Algae (Always on a veggie clip)
Red Marine Algae (Always on a veggie clip)

I don't know an exact amount that I am feeding them, all I can say is that it is generally gone within a half a minute to a minute of me putting it in the tank. I always worry that I am not feeding them enough because they eat it so quickly. Maybe someone can weigh in on that in addition to the overall problem.

Overall I just really don't know why the fish are dying. Everything else seems to be doing well, the anemone, shrimp, corals, snails, and starfish all seem to be thriving and most have grown quite a bit. As I said the yellow tang is the only thing that has survived fish wise over everything else that has died.

 

[lmforbis]

I can't really see anything that raises big red flags. I can give you a couple suggestions.
Try raising your temp a bit to around 78. I'd also purchase a second heater. Heaters are known to fail, two smaller heaters gives you more time if you have a heater failure than one larger one.
Don't add things to your tank unless you have tested for them. All the additives you have, stop adding. Get test kits for calcium, magnesium and alkalinity, don't get API kits they aren't reliable. Once you can measure these it is fine to dose to increase levels if they need it. That goes for all additives. Trace elements should be replenished with waterchanges. It is calcium magnesium and alkalinity that need to be watched. I'd get a good two part (it is really 3 parts). I buy mine from bulk reef supply. It has individual pharmaceutical grade chemicals that you mix with RODI water and add as needed. Very reasonably priced.
pH of 8 is fine. Don't chase pH. If alkalinity calcium and magnesium are good pH should be good.
You don't need the plankton. Fish poop does the same thing.

 

[Sweetthang]

I can't really see anything that raises big red flags. I can give you a couple suggestions.
Try raising your temp a bit to around 78. I'd also purchase a second heater. Heaters are known to fail, two smaller heaters gives you more time if you have a heater failure than one larger one.
Don't add things to your tank unless you have tested for them. All the additives you have, stop adding. Get test kits for calcium, magnesium and alkalinity, don't get API kits they aren't reliable. Once you can measure these it is fine to dose to increase levels if they need it. That goes for all additives. Trace elements should be replenished with waterchanges. It is calcium magnesium and alkalinity that need to be watched. I'd get a good two part (it is really 3 parts). I buy mine from bulk reef supply. It has individual pharmaceutical grade chemicals that you mix with RODI water and add as needed. Very reasonably priced.
pH of 8 is fine. Don't chase pH. If alkalinity calcium and magnesium are good pH should be good.
You don't need the plankton. Fish poop does the same thing.

Thank you! Can you link me to or tell me specifically what to get for testing? Currently I am using the API reef master test kit.

 

[lmforbis]

I use salifert test kits, they are available on Amazon, at BRS, and I'd think any big online seller of marine aquarium supplies, I also use SeaChem tests, I like salifert better, just a personal preference both work well. Red Sea also has good kits.

 

[Sweetthang]

I will look for them, thanks! The heater I have is only rated for a 75 gallon tank but it works so well I don't even have it turned all the way up. I'll try bumping the heat up a bit and use two smaller heaters instead. Any advice on the feeding? I'm curious if they are getting enough food. I also am curious if you have ANY idea why the fish would be dropping like flies?

 

[jay0705]

You could bump the sg up a bit for corals but you have no issues w them.
The fish issue, can be as simple as your just getting bad fish or as difficult as it is you or your tank. Yellow tangs are a hardy fish , so him living isn't extraordinary. You say you do the drip, do u actually test the sg w the fish and your tank?. Alot of places keep very low sg, so it can take awhile to get there water equal to yours

 

[Sweetthang]

The place I have been getting my fish from keep their salinity at 1.023 so I'm a little smidge lower than they are. I do a drip method for acclimation for everything fish, corals, inverts etc. TBH I'm shocked the corals are doing so well because I know zero about them, but they are doubling in size and blooming fine. My chromis would have made it if not for my anemone eating them. He only goes for them and unfortunately they get way too close.

 

[jay0705]

I would say let things settle and try fish in a month or so again

 

[Kristin1234]

That seems like a lot of fish for a 125 when you add both your lists together.

 

[Kristin1234]

How much are you feeding when you feed? That seems like a lot of food as well.

 

[Sweetthang]

I don't over populate, I wouldn't have bought the other fish for the tank of others hadn't died. Since I had no luck with the ones I tried others and didn't really have luck with those either! As to the food, when I feed them they don't get a huge glob, as I said the food is gone in 30 seconds to a minute so I don't think I'm over feeding? The algae I just always have on clips and they eat it as they want it.

 

[Kristin1234]

I don't over populate, I wouldn't have bought the other fish for the tank of others hadn't died. Since I had no luck with the ones I tried others and didn't really have luck with those either! As to the food, when I feed them they don't get a huge glob, as I said the food is gone in 30 seconds to a minute so I don't think I'm over feeding? The algae I just always have on clips and they eat it as they want it.

So the fish on the died list were not in the tank with the other list?

That's what made it seem like a lot.

 

[Sweetthang]

No, they weren't. I tried some and when they died I tried something else. The only fish that have been a constant is the sleeper blue dot goby, the yellow tang, and 2 clowns. The clowns are the only things I ever replaced with clowns because I really wanted them! The other fish, for example, when the blue tang died instead of getting another I got a foxface to try it. At most, excluding the gobies, I've only had 6 fish at a time.

 

[Kristin1234]

What about your sand? Did you use all the orginal sand? New sand? How did you transport the sand? I know another thread I read similar to this and it had something to do with sand releasing gases. Where is @pegasus when we need him.

 

[Sweetthang]

It was new sand and old sand. When I got the set up some sand was given with it, which I cleaned until the water ran clear, let it sit a week in a bucket and then did it again. It wasn't a lot of sand, so I had new sand as well which I cleaned prior to use also.

 

[jay0705]

Cleaning old sand basically makes it new. All the good stuff in it , got washed away. Alot of old sand can build up toxins, however a handful added to new sand is beneficial in seeding the new sand

 

[Sweetthang]

I didn't know that, I was worried it would be bad so I cleaned all of it.

 

[jay0705]

Well u learned something lol. Thought on your food 86 the blood worms. Its best to feed marine fish marine food. Blood worms are fw. The fact that your coral is fine , indicates it was prob just iffy fish in a newly set up tank. Give it time and maybe try a diff lfs

 

[beaslbob]

One thing I noticed and perhaps has already been identified is the use of PH up.


That tells my your pH was low.

First, always measure pH just before lights out. It is normal for pH do drop a night because pH is a function of carbon dioxide among other things. So with lights out pH will drop. It is a matter of how much of a drop not that it does drop.

I would add macro or other algaes to balance out and stabilize tank operation. A in tank or external refugium with macro algae or an algae turf scrubber. The algae will consume ammonia first then nitrates, phosphates, carbon dioxide, and even heavy metals like copper while returning oxygen and fish food.

So once balanced out and stabilized tank operation becomes much more "goof proof"

But that's just my .02

 

[Sweetthang]

Where do I get macro algae? I don't have a refugium and not sure what algae turf scrubber is. My pH was low yes.