What Do High Nitrates Really Do?

[triton]

Are controlling Nitrates really that important, especially in a FOWLR system?
One of my local FS that has been in business for 10+ years, has high nitrates in every tank. The store owner says it is really not an issue, and two focus more on the Ammonia and Nitrites.
My system is a SeaClear II, that runs lots of Bio-Balls. These are great at removing ammonia and nitrites, but create lotes of nitrates.
I know nitrates create algae, but would it be possible to experience other issues? I know high Nitrates are not deadly to fish, in and off themselves. At least from what I have read so far.

 

[cjml]

Hello! Yes ammonia & nitrites should be zero. Nitrates should be as close to zero as possible. :happyfish :happyfish

 

[promisetbg]

Why don't you consider removing the bioballs and rely on your LR, sandbed, & protein skimmer for denitrification? How deep is the sandbed? Proper water changes helps too.When nitrate is allowed to accumulate or build-up to high levels it can effect the health of the animals you are keeping, and because marine plants and algae feed on nitrate, this is one of the main reasons problems with algae blooms occur. Are you using RO/DI water with 0 TDS? Have you tested your salt mix with the water before using it? Along with high nitrates usually comes high PO4{phosphates}, 1 point of PO4 is equal to 1 point of free ammonia.

 

[poniegirl]

Our tanks are enclosed environments, and so cannot clean themselves the way the ocean obviously can. Nitrates will build up to the point of being toxic if regular water changes are not kept up. And water changes are a very healthy, neccessary way of controlling nitrates.
If your tank is fully cycled, unless you have a high die off rate or there is another issue at work, you shouldn't need anything to control ammonia or nitrite. There shouldn't be any.

 

[triton]

I do regular water changes, so I think that is helping.
My Ammonia and Nitrite levels are at 0, that is not what I was posting about. I am posting about Nitrates.
I have no interest in RO water, as my local tap water is of good quality.

 

[ophiura]

What are your nitrate levels at? YOur LFS is not totally wrong, but I think a bit extreme. I have seen tanks with VERY high nitrate levels (easily in excess of 200ppm) with really not impact on the fish. However, this is a very abnormal condition and I would not just ignore it.
I would be primarily concerned with ammonia and nitrite, but I would not allow nitrate to accumulate unchecked. Nitrate levels of 20 -40 in a fish only system would not really alarm me, but should be under 20 in a soft/LPS coral system and under 10 in a SPS system (as low as possible). This is all my opinion, but I strongly disagree with any thing that states nitrates must be 0...trying to get to this can take most of the joy out of the hobby.
High nitrate levels can be indicative of other unhealthy situations and should be considered as such. Overstocking, overfeeding, poor filtration or maintenance are not things to ignore, and all are sources of nitrates.

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
What are your nitrate levels at? YOur LFS is not totally wrong, but I think a bit extreme. I have seen tanks with VERY high nitrate levels (easily in excess of 200ppm) with really not impact on the fish. However, this is a very abnormal condition and I would not just ignore it.
I would be primarily concerned with ammonia and nitrite, but I would not allow nitrate to accumulate unchecked. Nitrate levels of 20 -40 in a fish only system would not really alarm me, but should be under 20 in a soft/LPS coral system and under 10 in a SPS system (as low as possible). This is all my opinion, but I strongly disagree with any thing that states nitrates must be 0...trying to get to this can take most of the joy out of the hobby.
High nitrate levels can be indicative of other unhealthy situations and should be considered as such. Overstocking, overfeeding, poor filtration or maintenance are not things to ignore, and all are sources of nitrates.

Ophirua,
I am pretty certain what the cause of my Nitrates are: crushed coral and bio-balls.
The bio-balls have a lot of benefit, so I am keeping them. I don't want the expense and mess of tearing up the crushed coral and putting in live sand. It is a FOWLR system, so I am not to concerned. The Nitrates seem to be around 200.
Thanks

 

[ophiura]

That is on the high side!

I will say that on smaller tanks, it is more manageable. Definitely siphon the crushed coral regularly. Remove sections of the bioballs and rinse in old tank water now and then. Do you have any sponges or prefilters? Rinse these every few days.
The system that I worked on with nitrates above 200 was around 30,000g....a bit more difficult to siphon and water change.

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
That is on the high side!

I will say that on smaller tanks, it is more manageable. Definitely siphon the crushed coral regularly. Remove sections of the bioballs and rinse in old tank water now and then. Do you have any sponges or prefilters? Rinse these every few days.
The system that I worked on with nitrates above 200 was around 30,000g....a bit more difficult to siphon and water change.

Ophiura,
I heard that you don't want to touch the bio-balls, as it destroys the bacteria? This tank is over 5 years old, I got a great deal on it 2nd hand. Would there be any major issue with just letting the bio-balls bee? I am not going to add corals to this tank.
Thanks

 

[hatessushi]

You should still clean the balls periodically. If you let them go to long then the bacteria builds up to much and dies off. You shouldn't take them all out at once and rinse them but just some and do it over time. Maybe get into a scheduled process.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Triton
Ophiura,
I heard that you don't want to touch the bio-balls, as it destroys the bacteria? This tank is over 5 years old, I got a great deal on it 2nd hand. Would there be any major issue with just letting the bio-balls bee? I am not going to add corals to this tank.
Thanks

If you washed them in TAP water, this would be bad. But they should be rinsed in old tank water to remove excess gunk that may collect on them and, effectively, rot. That is what you are removing.
The bacterial population on the bioballs is basically controlled by the bioload in the tank...ultimately the amount of ammonia, and then nitrite. If you had a tank with very few fish, and then packed several in, it would probably be an issue. The bacteria likely will have a "lag time" before being able to handle it. This is why we always say add a fish...then wait several weeks...then add fish...etc. Too many, too fast, will crash the system.
But rinsing the bioballs now and then is not a problem.
What fish do you have? How much LR do you have? Do you have a skimmer?

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
If you washed them in TAP water, this would be bad. But they should be rinsed in old tank water to remove excess gunk that may collect on them and, effectively, rot. That is what you are removing.
The bacterial population on the bioballs is basically controlled by the bioload in the tank...ultimately the amount of ammonia, and then nitrite. If you had a tank with very few fish, and then packed several in, it would probably be an issue. The bacteria likely will have a "lag time" before being able to handle it. This is why we always say add a fish...then wait several weeks...then add fish...etc. Too many, too fast, will crash the system.
But rinsing the bioballs now and then is not a problem.
What fish do you have? How much LR do you have? Do you have a skimmer?
Ophiura,
It is actually extremely difficult to take the bio-balls out and wash them. This is because of the way the System II system is setup. The bio-balls are in-cased in the back of the system, and exit only at the top. You could effectively take out a row and rinse them, than put them back in. But you would be washing the same bio-balls continously. You wouldn't be able to get at the ones deeper in the system, without removing them all.

I have 90lbs of live rock in an 80 gallon system. I do have a protein skimmer.

 

[ophiura]

What fish and other inhabitants are there? You have a good amount of LR...

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
What fish and other inhabitants are there? You have a good amount of LR...
Blue Tang
Copper Band Butterfly
Bi-color Angel
Coral Beauty Angel
2x Clown Fish
2x Cleaner Shrimps
8x Small hermits
30x Nessarius snails
2x Turbo snails
4x Conches
I am planning on adding some additional specimens in the future. Probably 1 more medium to large fish, and 4-6 smaller ones.

 

[ophiura]

IMO, you are at maximum stocking already. I don't believe you will get other fish - DEFINITELY not large one's in there. The tang will get very large for that tank as it is. And certainly not 4-6 smaller one's. I would STRONGLY discourage adding any more large fish, and really any more but maybe one or two small fish.

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
IMO, you are at maximum stocking already. I don't believe you will get other fish - DEFINITELY not large one's in there. The tang will get very large for that tank as it is. And certainly not 4-6 smaller one's. I would STRONGLY discourage adding any more large fish, and really any more but maybe one or two small fish.
I was thinking of getting some Chromis.

 

[maelv]

Not to steal your thread, but I am questioning my Nitrate levels.....It is sitting at about 40 ppm....135 gallon. Is this considered to be on the high side? Would Trates this high damage corals? I put a couple of frags in and they aren't doing so hot right now...thanks

 

[ophiura]

It is not ideal for corals, in general. "SPS" would probably have more issues than some soft corals, but in general, I would say it is not desirable. It is high for coral systems, yes.
But be sure to address other issues - pH, alk, calcium, etc as well.
Triton - I just don't know. With nitrates already as high as it is....and a bioload of fish already quite high...personally I would not try. And certainly not until you make SOME impact on those nitrates.

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by ophiura
It is not ideal for corals, in general. "SPS" would probably have more issues than some soft corals, but in general, I would say it is not desirable. It is high for coral systems, yes.
But be sure to address other issues - pH, alk, calcium, etc as well.
Triton - I just don't know. With nitrates already as high as it is....and a bioload of fish already quite high...personally I would not try. And certainly not until you make SOME impact on those nitrates.
Ophiura,
The research I have done suggests Nitrate has minimal impact on a FOWLR system. I do bi-weekly water changes, which I know helps.
Why are the nitrates causing you a concern?
I would definetely like to add a starfish at some point. Do you think that would be an issue?

 

[maelv]

Originally Posted by ophiura
It is not ideal for corals, in general. "SPS" would probably have more issues than some soft corals, but in general, I would say it is not desirable. It is high for coral systems, yes.
But be sure to address other issues - pH, alk, calcium, etc as well.
I will thank you.....My Calcium was at about 550, alk was a little high as well...ph is sitting at about 8.2 all other levels (excluding trates) seemed to be okay....
Anyhow...thank you