What happened, need help fish loss
- Thread starter uscmizzy
- Start date
2quills
Well-Known Member
If you are using Prime as a dechlorinator for tap water that could be an issue.
My city water supply (like most these days) use chloromine which is a combination of chlorine and ammonia.
I've read some not so good stories about prime not being terribly effective at removing both.
You should really post some full details about your set up, age and how you do your water changes or add top off water.
Would make it easier to advise on what to or what not to watch out for.
My city water supply (like most these days) use chloromine which is a combination of chlorine and ammonia.
I've read some not so good stories about prime not being terribly effective at removing both.
You should really post some full details about your set up, age and how you do your water changes or add top off water.
Would make it easier to advise on what to or what not to watch out for.
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
Unless you have an issue with ammonia there is no reason to add prime. Are you using RODI water to make your salt water?
I don't see the MelaFix as being the problem. If it was reduced O2 I'd expect the fish to improve over time after water change and increased aeration. It would have to be a huge dose to kill your fish, even then it doesn't appear to be toxic.
My guess is your Gramma had a disease that spread to your other fish. Maybe velvet or brook. If that is the case leaving the tank fallow for 6weeks should clear it. In the meantime you can do some more research on maintanence and stocking so you are prepared to restart. I'd also urge you to set up a quarantine for future fish.
I don't see the MelaFix as being the problem. If it was reduced O2 I'd expect the fish to improve over time after water change and increased aeration. It would have to be a huge dose to kill your fish, even then it doesn't appear to be toxic.
My guess is your Gramma had a disease that spread to your other fish. Maybe velvet or brook. If that is the case leaving the tank fallow for 6weeks should clear it. In the meantime you can do some more research on maintanence and stocking so you are prepared to restart. I'd also urge you to set up a quarantine for future fish.
uscmizzy
Member
Ok so details on tank it's a 36 gallon bowfront only thing pet alive are two turbo snails. When the melafix was added it was only a top full nothing more, just one top. The prime I do add after every saltwater change and I get my water premixed from the same lfs that told me to add prime. So now that everything is dead but the snails what should I do? I honestly believe the gramma had something but it trusted my lfs who said all his fish were quarantined but just recently found out he doesn't do any of that just gets them and puts them up for sale so I'm leaning towards something with gramma since it happened right after it was added. So again what should I do? Also any stocking tips? Right now looking at two clowns, anemone and that's it for now. Thoughts?!?
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
I doubt it was ich but it could have been velvet or brook. I believe the fallow period for both of those is 6 weeks. Just keep the tank fish less for 6 weeks. Continue to feed a bit to keep the bacteria alive and the snails. Your tank is really too new for an anemone and you need very intense lighting to keep one. I'd start with the clowns after the fallow period is over. Quarantine them first to play it safe. After the clowns are doing well you can look for something for them to call home. I've had them use soft corals, I've read about them using hammer coral both are less demanding than anemones. Usually it is recommended to wait a year before you get an anemone.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Initially you mentioned no indication of sickness or disease. Since I'm not aware of the full details on your tank I'll just say this.
First thing u need to do is verify why you're detecting ammonia. Try a new kit or have your water tested at your LFS for a comparison against your current results. Second thing is get your own ro/di filter and start making your own water.
Perhaps your local place is selling you conditioned water. Maybe thats why they're recommending the use of prime who knows?
Either way ammonia and melafix both reduce fishes ability to intake oxygen. So good flow and some form of aeration is important on saltwater tanks more so than freshwater since the fish are more sensitive. Do we know for sure that more meds weren't accidentally dosed leading up to the current situation?
It still sounds like toxic water i.e. ammonia poisoning/suffocation by what you've described earlier. I suspect a culmination of contributing factors are probably at play.
36g isn't much. I'd start over with new water. You need to get the ammonia thing figured out first Do you have the means to be able to run carbon (gac)?
First thing u need to do is verify why you're detecting ammonia. Try a new kit or have your water tested at your LFS for a comparison against your current results. Second thing is get your own ro/di filter and start making your own water.
Perhaps your local place is selling you conditioned water. Maybe thats why they're recommending the use of prime who knows?
Either way ammonia and melafix both reduce fishes ability to intake oxygen. So good flow and some form of aeration is important on saltwater tanks more so than freshwater since the fish are more sensitive. Do we know for sure that more meds weren't accidentally dosed leading up to the current situation?
It still sounds like toxic water i.e. ammonia poisoning/suffocation by what you've described earlier. I suspect a culmination of contributing factors are probably at play.
36g isn't much. I'd start over with new water. You need to get the ammonia thing figured out first Do you have the means to be able to run carbon (gac)?
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
Prime can give false ammonia readings. The SeaChem ammonia test is the only one that I know of that can measure ammonia in the presence of prime.
I'd consider getting your own RODI unit and making your own salt water in the future. That way you are in full control of what goes into your tank.
I'd consider getting your own RODI unit and making your own salt water in the future. That way you are in full control of what goes into your tank.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Prime binds ammonia in the system. The reagent in test kits like API actually break the bond between the ions and turns NH4 (bound non toxic ammonia) and converts it back to NH3 (toxic free ammonia).
You need a free ammonia kit to determine how much toxic ammonia is actually in the system.
One way or another it sounds like ammonia is in there. The question is how toxic is it?
You need a free ammonia kit to determine how much toxic ammonia is actually in the system.
One way or another it sounds like ammonia is in there. The question is how toxic is it?
geridoc
Well-Known Member
You have to get the ammonia down! The only survivable level for ammonia is 0. Some people use Prime, I use Amquel+, but they are pretty much the same thing. If you are dosing correctly, then you will still detect ammonia, but it will be in an inactivated state. Sorry to hear about your crash, but it has happened to all of us, and we know it is very frustrating.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
My .02 Prime does not remove ammonia or nitrite but 'locks' them into less toxic chemical compounds . you will still get a test results for ammonia if it is present it is just detoxified
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
IMHO the "danger" of prime and other ammonia locks is you test ammonia, treat and still test ammonia. then treat some more.
The danger is that they also lock up (reduce) oxygen in the system and the fish can suffocate while showing the same symptoms as ammonia shock.
You could try resetting the system with a "planted" type setup. Use macro algae to balance out the tank. Let things set a week then introduce a single male molly. and don't add food for the first week. Then the second week start feeding a single flake per day. If you can get the molly to live for 3-4 weeks your tank should be ready for the more expensive marine only fish.
You can also try this with no water changes, no chemicals. Just let the tank find it's own balanced stabilized levels to support the bioload.
But that's just my .02
The danger is that they also lock up (reduce) oxygen in the system and the fish can suffocate while showing the same symptoms as ammonia shock.
You could try resetting the system with a "planted" type setup. Use macro algae to balance out the tank. Let things set a week then introduce a single male molly. and don't add food for the first week. Then the second week start feeding a single flake per day. If you can get the molly to live for 3-4 weeks your tank should be ready for the more expensive marine only fish.
You can also try this with no water changes, no chemicals. Just let the tank find it's own balanced stabilized levels to support the bioload.
But that's just my .02
florida joe
Well-Known Member
the real danger IMO is introducing anything into you tank with our proper reserch. if you are going to introdice prime and not know how and why it works shame on you