what i want vs. what's possible

[dmoe]

What I want:
Community fish only tank with:
1 pair Percula clowns
1 Majestic angel
1 Powder Blue or Naso Tang
1 Harlequin Tusk
1 Lionfish {species negotiable}
Set-up info:
55gl
2 301 powerheads
1 Aquaclear 300 powerfilter
Standard Flourescent lighting
Artifical plants & some bleached & artifical coral
Agrilive coarse substrate
Real assorted seashells {sterilized}
Current Status:
Completed 1st cycle with Damsels at 7wks
1 Yellow Tang & 3 Damsels current inhabitants.
Just did 1st water change, tank doing beautifully.
0 ammonia just trace nitrates & nitrites.
Going to add artifical barnacle cluster for clowns.
If anyone has had success with these species in a community,
any advice or info would be very much appreciated.
I've been told the clowns + Lionfish + Tusk = fishfood,
but call me stubborn.Also order of introduction info please.
Oh great fish guru's please answer my pleas!
Dan Moriarty:dmoe@insightbb.com

 

[ohioballer]

the percs are about the only thing that i see being able to survive and not be stressed in a tank that size

 

[fshhub]

1st, are you sure it is completeyl cycled?
any nitrite is too much to continue
2d, rethink your list. What you have now, will be good enough, without even neding to discuss the tang issue.
3d,
Standard Flourescent lighting
Artifical plants & some bleached & artifical coral
Agrilive coarse substrate
Real assorted seashells {sterilized}
will all surely become algae beds. same with the barnacle cluster.
IMO, pair of percs, dwarf lin and maybe your deamels would make a nice tank.

 

[krazykarel]

Dude your stock tastes are too big for your current tank, but do not fret you can still have great looking community tank.
Invision this: pair of clowns(i would go with false percs), flame hawk, pigmy angel(coral beauty, flame angel, flame back..etc), and a fairy wrasse (solar, scott's, velvet, etc.) could maybe add/or sub a Royal Gramma in there.
I see that happening...you just would need to think about the order of introduction. I mean you got personality AND beauty whatelse could you want?!

 

[flamehawk]

What you want is not possible w/ size tank you have. Since you already have the The yellow tang(YT), keep him as the center piece and build around him. If you had the option , he really s/b one of the last if not the last fish added. Pretty territorial. I persoanlly would remove the 3 damsels if you can catch them and return to LFS. They also are quite agressive and will go after the percs and others as they are added. You may have to remove the tang to another tank for a while if he relentlessly goes after other fish as they are introduced. You could lalways re-introduce the YT after 2 weeks or so of other fish getting acclimated.
GO slow. Your tank just cycled and you don't want to add too fast.
I also would add about 45lbs of L/R to provide natural bacterial filtration and in my opinion all reef fish seem to do much better w/ LR. If you add the rock, you will have about 42 g's of water in the tank if you divide by 39 3 gallons per inch of fish) , you have room for about 12-14 inches of small fish. Small because of the size of the tank, which although a nice size, it's really quite small by S/W fish standards. All that siad you can set up a nice colorful exhibit.
ASsuming you return the damsels and keep the YT the only ones from your list that will work w/b the percs. I would also stay away from pigmy angels until the tank is up and running with no problems for 5-6 months.
My suggestions....YT, 2 percs, flame hawk OR royal gramma and call it a day. I'd wait another 2 weeks then add the 2 percs. Wait another 2 weeks and add either of the other two. Sit back and enjoy. Good luck.
P.S. if you go with the L/R suggestion don't add any more fish until the re-cycle is complete. Tank will re-cycle. Be sure to get cured rock but even so you will get some die off and thus a re-cycle. After re-cycle done then follow above.

 

[krazykarel]

I agree with Flamehawk...i just realized that this is a fresh tank. Forget about the pygmy angels I would wait till you really have the hang of this hobby and that your tank matures (6mos+).
Get rid of the damsels...nuff said

 

[dmoe]

Went to my local fish store & had my water tested & came up
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
trace nitrates
Last time I buy $12 test kit.
Have decided to keep Yellow Tang & Damsels & add a Naso & see who wins the Tang struggle.
Won't add anything else until at least 5 months.
No clowns,feel bad not giving them an anenome.
Going 2 let it get well established & go with either Majestic or Harlequin when I'm confident it's stable.
I guess that's good enough until I can upsize.
Thanks 4 all your advice & helping me avoid disaster.
Dan
P.S. If Harlequin,Damsels expendable.

 

[mightyoxjuice]

get rid of damsels
do not add a naso tang
clowns do not need an anemone to survive
add 50-75 pounds of live rock
If you want a lion, then consider a dwarf lion

 

[polarpooch]

Invision this: pair of clowns(i would go with false percs), flame hawk, pigmy angel(coral beauty, flame angel, flame back..etc), and a fairy wrasse (solar, scott's, velvet, etc.) could maybe add/or sub a Royal Gramma in there.
This is a very nice suggestion, krazykarel. Would be a lovely tank. I'm clipping it for a friend who is close to getting his FOWLR established. Which would you add first here?
.

 

[flamehawk]

You will not avoid disaster if you add the naso. I personally would question any LFS that would not warn you against putting 2 tangs in a 55, especially a naso. WOW...I wrote that long response before genuinely trying to help only to have you ignore the advice! Unfortunately the suffering will be done by the fish who will be stressed.
"See who wins the tang struggle" is not the approach needed to be successful in this hobby. My suggestion is that you read much more and listen to the answers in response to your questions.

 

[krazykarel]

This is a very nice suggestion, krazykarel. Would be a lovely tank. I'm clipping it for a friend who is close to getting his FOWLR established. Which would you add first here?
Polarpooch: I want to give a disclaimer about my stocking suggestion. The tank must be well established (6mos+). I made the mistake of adding centropygy angels to my cycled tank too early and they did not fair well (i lost a flame, pygmy, coral beauty). What size is his tank?
Now to answer your question
This is difficult...the angels can be a bit fiesty and same with the clowns (i used to have a false perc that would attack my hand when i was cleaning the tank!). I have also heard that Flamehawks can be fiesty as well. So i would say add these last. I think if i had to do it again i would add the cirrhilabrus wrasse first. I have all of these in my tank now: coral beauty, ocellaris clown, flame hawk, scott's fairy wrasse. Added in that order and there is rarely aggression. Sometimes my clown will chase the fairy or the angel. If you were to go with a royal gramma I would put him in towards the begginning. In my experience these guys can get stressed out trying to build territory in the tank. So let him get established first and he will only show aggression if his "space" is invaded.
Hope that helps!

 

[polarpooch]

I totally agree on the pygmies. I had enough problems and little advice when I tried to add one of these in a young tank. His tank has been up for about 5 months. It's a 75. About 90lbs of LR. He has three damsels in it right now. (I'm taking those off his hands for my eels when he's ready to add fish.)
I think, though, that the pygmies are such a nice addition in a proper tank (I'm quite fond of Coral Beauties)! But I will insist he wait some more months before adding one.
Thanks for the good advice on this!
You should post a pic of your tank, I'll bet it's cool!

 

[dmoe]

Do you think that in the reefs,these fish don't have a rivarly?
These aren't my kids, they are just fish.If you feel that deeply
about it ,I'm sorry for offending you.The rest of all you guys,
thank you for your advice!I think I'll be OK.I will ask more
questions in the future.I hope to benefit from everyone's expierience.Once again,
Thanks!!!!

 

[flamehawk]

Don't compare the open ocean to a glass box..... They are just fish..... it's challenging enough to successfully keep s/w in captivity w/o having a cavileer approach. Good luck....your fish will need it.

 

[wrassecal]

Originally posted by dmoe

Have decided to keep Yellow Tang & Damsels & add a Naso & see who wins the Tang struggle.

I hate the harsh stuff so please read this reply as coming from someone who has been there, has literally felt the hit in the pocketbook and time and the frustration...........
Right now you say they are only fish, but if you end up staying in this hobby it will be because you love it and the inhabitants of your tank. But that hasn't happened yet so there are other things I advise you to think about. How deep are your pockets? If you can afford to buy all the above listed and you know there will be tang wars, do you know the consequences of that? Naso's aren't cheap. If you put the damsels and the yellow tang and the naso in that tank, especially if it's not a stable mature tank you are probably (unless you buy them very small) going to have tang wars and tang wars cause stress and stress causes ich and other fish diseases. You risk losing all your livestock. So then can you afford to replace all your fish every time you lose them? Or set up a hospital tank for the sick and/or injured? Can you be prepared to perform hyposalinity for 3 weeks? (A REALLY big hassle) If so, why not invest in a larger tank up front and avoid the continuing hassle. How about your time? You will also have a very heavy bio-load on your tank which will mess with your water chemistry and you will be constantly working to fix and maintain it. What about a protein skimmer? Tangs and/or dward angels can't live with just fake plants and dead corals unless you are supplementing the greens for them every day. I mention all these things because not only are they not good for your fish but, they are not good for you. You won't get what you want, which I assume is something that is beautiful to look at and you can be proud of. Instead you will get a tank full of problems that you are constantly working on. SW is a lot of work even when it's going right. It' an unbelievable amount of work and $ when it's going wrong. I'm just kind of forewarning you now that you are risking trouble in a lot of different ways if you go this route. All that being said, I sure would love that combo (minus the damsels) myself, just can't do it.

 

[dmoe]

Wrassecal,
Thank you for your polite, non-condescending advice.Of late, I have been much observing my Yellow Tang,& find him not to be the boring "starter fish" I once thought.Although I am very fond of Naso's,I'll take good advice & back off on this one.I'm not new to this,it's just been a very long time since I've been in the position to enjoy my favorite hobby.I don't know if you'll believe me,but back in 1987 I had a 55gl community tank with a Red Volitan,Naso,Harlequin Tusk,Majestic Angel,& 1 Yellowtail Damsel left over from start-up.He was a tough little sucker.I admired him for surviving all the way through my first cycle & the addition of my lion{who later died from eating a gold fish as big as he was fed to him by my ex-wife}With a bi-weekly 25% waterchange & veggie-rich feeding,I had almost problem free enjoyment for 2yrs.Then I got cocky & added a Black Ribbon eel.This tipped the bioload & after some friends of mine fish-sitting the Majestic & the Naso for a few months I got things back under control.I ended up with,The Majestic,Naso,Harlequin,eel,& Damsel living in a tense but successful tank,which some people had to actually come & see to believe.I have some polaroids of it & will send them to whoever wants to see.I'll have to go to Kinkos, as I dont have a scanner.By the way,I found a cool way to get my Black Ribbon eel to start feeding.After watcing some guys on Jauques Cousteu show hand feeding some Wolf eels on TV,I took a thin transparent nylon rod,& tied a stunned guppy to the end.After a few times of smacking him gently in the face with the offering,his aggressive tendencies took over & he took it.A few days later he was taking live ones as long as I squirted them in his territory with a turkey baster.In hindsight,I think this tank was successful because I added all inhabitants very young and small. They all grew up together. I was also very strick on my water changing & water testing.For now, I will add nothing & let this tank become fully established.I want the Majestic & Harlequin sometime in the future though.That's one of the exciting things about this hobby.Taking risks & having them work out or not.I'm willing to deal with the consequences.Thank you for removing some of the "cocky" from my attitude.I'd like some more info on protein skimmers if your willing.Never had one & I'd like to know some of the pros & cons,maintenance,etc.Whatever you can tell me I'd appreciate.
Thanks again,
Dan Moriarty.
dmoe@insightbb.com

 

[sinner's girl]

not going to comment on two tangs in a 55gl...
"No clowns, feel bad not giving them an anenome." They don't need one, so don't feel bad. i've had one for over 2.5 years without one.
artifical barnacle-my fish love it. when the clown was small she go in it. down the damsels go in the barnacle to hide from the clown or to play. I just take them out and clean them every so often to get rid of algea. plus imo, the barnacle add something diff than just lr. (the stars like it too).