what is happening to everything..pics of star & open brain

[tax lady]

Had a thread going in reef (I think) about my Serpent star losing parts of his leg..no one has responded with an answer.
now today he died along with an emerald crab and cleaner shrimp. The pic above also shows a sifting star with legs deteriorating also, and an open brain that has a mouth open wide which makes me think that maybe she is also dying or dead. Does anyone know what could be going on here.
I have some more test kits ordered, but for the ones i have, the params are:
ph 7.8 (can't seem to get it above that)...any suggestions here
nitrates 5 or 10 (can't read the colors too good)
nitrites 0
ammonia 0
1.25 on the thing with the swinging arm.
Don't know what it could be. i am besides myself with all this going on. Also, it seems that I can never keep any pep sh alive. And last week one of my large snails died.
can anyone shed any light on any of this. It may be only one or more problems.
Oh, last night when I was feeding some corals and turned the pump off, I forgot it till tonight. So it was off for 24 hours. also my daylight light went off and my order for it will not come in till Friday. So its been off for 3 days now.

Also that thing on the left in pic is my feather duster that looks dead too. His feather came missing about a week ago.
Please help

 

[sepulatian]

What test kits are you using and how old are they?
Buy a refractometer. You put the money into a reef. Why rely on something so innaccurate?

 

[socalnano24]

the pump being off for 24 hours could have killed alot. Pumps provide circulation that aid in oxygen exchange. A large bioload can literally remove oxygen from a non circulated tank in a matter of hours.
Also SG should be at 1.025, so unless your reading it incorrectly your off by huge amount

 

[tax lady]

Originally Posted by SocalNano24
http:///forum/post/3098534
the pump being off for 24 hours could have killed alot. Pumps provide circulation that aid in oxygen exchange. A large bioload can literally remove oxygen from a non circulated tank in a matter of hours.
Also SG should be at 1.025, so unless your reading it incorrectly your off by huge amount
Sorry, it is 1.025, forgot the 0.

 

[tax lady]

But what about the legs of the stars being deteriorating?

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by Tax lady
http:///forum/post/3098604
But what about the legs of the stars being deteriorating?
well (to state the obvious), you definitely have something going on in that tank. I would double check your parameters and if you cant get test kits for a few days, take it to your LFS and have them test it for you NOW.
while leaving the pump off was probably not a good thing, what I see in that pic probably did not happen over the last 24 hours. my guess is:
a: your tests are way off and your chemistry is really bad. the tests will probably answer that.
b: sand sifting stars need a lot of crap to eat. in a small tank they usually starve to death within a year or so.
c: brain corals (anemones, corals, etc) usually succumb to bad water quality before anything else. if your parameters check out, is it possible you come some other chemical in the tank by accident, glass cleaner, bleach, etc?
d: are you using tap water and not RO//DI water? tap water CAN have a lot of strange crap in it. If not, GET an RO/DI unit. this would be consistent with your tests coming up correct, but the deterioration of your tank over time. Those tests kits wont reveal anything in tap water, bu that doesn't mean it isn't there.
e: have you taken an inventory recently... i.e. did something die and is rotting way in the back of your tank? If so, get it out.
f: what kind of filtration are you using and how are you maintaining it... i.e are you using a canister filter but have not thoroughly cleaned it in Months? Or are you using bioballs that a filled with crud?
g: what KIND of lighting. Corals need lots of light.
thats what I can think of but if you want more help you need to post this information along with tank size, filtration, water source, lighting, etc. AND YES: Buy a refractometer.

 

[flower]

My .02 cents
PH s way low to start with. 1.025 is just fine. An hydometer may not be dead on accurate...doesn't really matter unless you are doing hypo. If everything reads the same on the hydometer. it is consistant and safe. If SG keeps changing, then there is a problem. A refractometer is the best choice, that is not the problem in this situation.
Nitrates being high (that test might be off) go to the LFS and have them check it .. over 40 will kill inverts whech is what sounds like is going on, or something is eating them.
Personally I could never keep a brain alive more than 3 months

so the coral dying may be no indicator of what is killing the inverts.

 

[windlasher]

One more thing: The only time I have seen inverts go that crazy and start to fall apart is when the PH or Calcium is VERY High. I was trying like crazy to raise my PH because my probe said it was too low. I added all kinds of crap not knowing that trying to raise one thing in a tank can have an exponential increase on other things. KH/PH/Calcium, etc. are directly related and changing one can send the other through the roof.
You said that you could not get your PH up?
ARE YOU DOSING ANYTHING? If so, STOP IT RIGHT NOW. and let us know. Now that I think about it, I'll bet $1 that your PH or Calcium is really high which is why you cant keep inverts.

 

[tax lady]

Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3098688
One more thing: The only time I have seen inverts go that crazy and start to fall apart is when the PH or Calcium is VERY High. I was trying like crazy to raise my PH because my probe said it was too low. I added all kinds of crap not knowing that trying to raise one thing in a tank can have an exponential increase on other things. KH/PH/Calcium, etc. are directly related and changing one can send the other through the roof.
You said that you could not get your PH up?
ARE YOU DOSING ANYTHING? If so, STOP IT RIGHT NOW. and let us know. Now that I think about it, I'll bet $1 that your PH or Calcium is really high which is why you cant keep inverts.
i have put something my lfs gave me which is made up of baking soda and water. Not much though. Do not have calcium test kit yet. will bring water today to lfs. But whenever he tests it is is fine.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by Tax lady
http:///forum/post/3098695
i have put something my lfs gave me which is made up of baking soda and water. Not much though. Do not have calcium test kit yet. will bring water today to lfs. But whenever he tests it is is fine.
OK< and Not to slam your LFS, but If it tests fine... Have it checked one more time at another store. The reason I suggest this is that had you said that he gave you a commercial supplement, I would understand, but I have NEVER heard of a LFS giving someone a store mix, especially baking soda.
Yes it can be used, but it is so touchy that that alone could wipe out your tank if used wrong. there are many household chemicals you could use in your tank, but as we are not all chemists, we usually buy the stuff that is tried and true with the absolute truth being that under normal circumstances, if you are doing regular water changes and using good salt mix. you really shouldnt need to add anything.
Please read the article below and you will understand why? If your PH is low, why are you adding baking soda. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will actually have a very slight pH lowering effect on it’s own.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...e2002/chem.htm

 

[tax lady]

Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3098679
well (to state the obvious), you definitely have something going on in that tank. I would double check your parameters and if you cant get test kits for a few days, take it to your LFS and have them test it for you NOW.
while leaving the pump off was probably not a good thing, what I see in that pic probably did not happen over the last 24 hours. my guess is:
a: your tests are way off and your chemistry is really bad. the tests will probably answer that.
b: sand sifting stars need a lot of crap to eat. in a small tank they usually starve to death within a year or so.
c: brain corals (anemones, corals, etc) usually succumb to bad water quality before anything else. if your parameters check out, is it possible you come some other chemical in the tank by accident, glass cleaner, bleach, etc?
d: are you using tap water and not RO//DI water? tap water CAN have a lot of strange crap in it. If not, GET an RO/DI unit. this would be consistent with your tests coming up correct, but the deterioration of your tank over time. Those tests kits wont reveal anything in tap water, bu that doesn't mean it isn't there.
e: have you taken an inventory recently... i.e. did something die and is rotting way in the back of your tank? If so, get it out.
f: what kind of filtration are you using and how are you maintaining it... i.e are you using a canister filter but have not thoroughly cleaned it in Months? Or are you using bioballs that a filled with crud?
g: what KIND of lighting. Corals need lots of light.
thats what I can think of but if you want more help you need to post this information along with tank size, filtration, water source, lighting, etc. AND YES: Buy a refractometer.
answers:
a.taking water to lfs to test today
b. sand sifting star is detereatinglegs,not starving
c. Dont think so. I am very careful about putting my hands in water. My anemone is doing great so guess its o.k. but don't know about my brain coral. does it look like it is dying?
D.Using RO from my LFS
e.Lost a pep shrimp a while back, but dont think the nitrates are high enough to worry about that.
f.filtration is the one on 34 gal aquapod.
g.good lighting. (says LFS) 32w dual daylight florescent and 32 w actinic dual moonlight and blue light. Anemone is doing good under it.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by Tax lady
http:///forum/post/3098715
answers:
a.taking water to lfs to test today
b. sand sifting star is detereatinglegs,not starving
c. Dont think so. I am very careful about putting my hands in water. My anemone is doing great so guess its o.k. but don't know about my brain coral. does it look like it is dying?
D.Using RO from my LFS
e.Lost a pep shrimp a while back, but dont think the nitrates are high enough to worry about that.
f.filtration is the one on 34 gal aquapod.
g.good lighting. (says LFS) 32w dual daylight florescent and 32 w actinic dual moonlight and blue light. Anemone is doing good under it.
Let us know what the water test results are. Also, & From another site: Starfish will lose arms as a result of stress. Even with a long acclimation period, starfish will still drop arms as a result of the stress of transportation. This behavior is an attempt to better its chances at survival. If the arms look healthy and you don't see them decay, they may develop into full starfish. Stress could include Starvation. trust me, a 34 gal tank is too small for that starfish and it will eventually starve to death. Have you seen the other legs? Could they be decaying in your tank?
Brain corals and anemone mouths should usually be closed. If it is like that all the time, it is definitely stressed about something.

 

[tax lady]

LFS did not test water. Said it would not do any good cause it had all the dead stuff in it. So advised change of water. Then test it later. We sort of agreed that the legs problem was probably some fungus or disease. So the sifting star went,,,was almost dead anyway. Can't find the other sand sifting star. And figured that the cleaner shrimp, sally,emerald crab and serpent star w/ damaged legs probably died when the filter was forgotten to turn back on until 24 hours later.
Also found out tht my tank is a 24 gal aquapod, not a 34 gal.
my error. sorry.
So all I can do now is change water, and wait to see wha happens. Thanks for all the replies from you guys. You are a godsend ..Its good to know that I can ask for advice and you come to my aid...thanks again.

 

[tax lady]

Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3098762
Let us know what the water test results are. Also, & From another site: Starfish will lose arms as a result of stress. Even with a long acclimation period, starfish will still drop arms as a result of the stress of transportation. This behavior is an attempt to better its chances at survival. If the arms look healthy and you don't see them decay, they may develop into full starfish. Stress could include Starvation. trust me, a 34 gal tank is too small for that starfish and it will eventually starve to death. Have you seen the other legs? Could they be decaying in your tank?
Brain corals and anemone mouths should usually be closed. If it is like that all the time, it is definitely stressed about something.
starfish were not just acclimated. Had them about 6 months.
Stress will do a lot of things, to all creatures including us.
Thanks for the input. The brain did eat some brine shrimp today so I will hope for the best for him.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by Tax lady
http:///forum/post/3099165
LFS did not test water. Said it would not do any good cause it had all the dead stuff in it. So advised change of water. Then test it later. We sort of agreed that the legs problem was probably some fungus or disease. So the sifting star went,,,was almost dead anyway. Can't find the other sand sifting star. And figured that the cleaner shrimp, sally,emerald crab and serpent star w/ damaged legs probably died when the filter was forgotten to turn back on until 24 hours later.
Also found out tht my tank is a 24 gal aquapod, not a 34 gal.
my error. sorry.
So all I can do now is change water, and wait to see wha happens. Thanks for all the replies from you guys. You are a godsend ..Its good to know that I can ask for advice and you come to my aid...thanks again.
No worries. thats the point of this. If you find the other sand sifting star and he is ok, I would trade him in. They need lots of food and your 24 wont provide enough.
"This peaceful omnivore will effectively clean even the largest home aquarium of detritus and left over food. Like other starfish, the Sand Sifting Sea Star will also consume small invertebrates, including shrimp, urchins, mollusks, bivalves, or other small sea stars. As such, the Sand Sifting Sea Star should be actively fed a varied diet consisting of natural food sources, especially in well-established marine aquariums. Otherwise, this voracious feeder will quickly clean your aquarium of detritus and then burrow into your substrate, starve, and eventually begin to decay. "
I would try to find him if you can. Good luck.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Tax lady
http:///forum/post/3099167
starfish were not just acclimated. Had them about 6 months.
Stress will do a lot of things, to all creatures including us.
Thanks for the input. The brain did eat some brine shrimp today so I will hope for the best for him.
The sand sifter stars will starve to death in that size tank in less than a year, and this is characteristic...they disintegrate. the arms start falling apart, and they just keep going until nothing is left. I strongly discourage getting any others. The other, if not dead already, almost certainly will experience the same fate.

 

[tax lady]

Got rid of the starfish that was so far gone. Can't find the other one. So no more sand sifting stars for me. Thanks for all the advice on them.
will keep you posted on what happens after a few water changes.
I am glad to hear that stars that are starving have deteriorating legs. (Sorry for the star though)..But that means that there is not a bacteria of fungus infection going on. And the others (cleaner shrimp, sally, emerald crab prob all died cause of no aeration for 24 hours.)...so guess that is settled.
Thanks for all your input...

Also have to get a refractometer.

 

[tax lady]

o k here are my params:
sg 1.022
ph 7.8
nitrates 2
nitrites 0
calcium 400
ammonia 0
I also bought a tropic marine phosphate test.
Cant figure out how exactly how to use it. I I am correct it is
.01 mg. Can someone tell me which is the salt or fresh water chart there. it is in German. One says meersubssar
and one says su

assar. also don't understand how you can read it by placing it in the little holes in the cardboard thingy.
Maybe someone has a better way.
also bought Slaifert kh/alk test. If anyone has that one, please help. I used all the drops in the syringe
from the KH bottle but it never did turn from blue/green to another color. Also there is a third bottle that don't know what it is for.
Wow, I am hijacking my own thread. Hope this is o.k.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[ophiura]

Your specific gravity is highly stressful, possibly fatal to inverts, IMO...certainly the star. For a reef, aim for 1.025-1.026. I would add saltwater to top off for the next few days and it should get it there.
Your pH is low. this could be a variety of things. I suggest taking a reading before lights out, and before lights on to see the full range of pH.

 

[tax lady]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3100694
Your specific gravity is highly stressful, possibly fatal to inverts, IMO...certainly the star. For a reef, aim for 1.025-1.026. I would add saltwater to top off for the next few days and it should get it there.
Your pH is low. this could be a variety of things. I suggest taking a reading before lights out, and before lights on to see the full range of pH.
Thanks Ophiura.
Did water change yesterday and added more salt to try to get sp up, but it didn't change.
i am going to get, soon I hope , a refractometer. Cus i don't know if this is the correct sp or not.
Also I can not seem to get the ph up. It is always low. Don't know why. Do you have any idea?
Seems like my open brain is not making it. She is turning white around the sides.
I think she was affected by the 24 hour no oxygen.
Other than that, don't know. My long tenacle sp is not happy nor is my frogspawn.
They are both not extending. They are small mind you, but still, seems like i have some problems that I am not aware of.