Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanko http:///t/387731/what-is-it#post_3413671
Agree with Bang here. I love cryptic zone creatures, sponges, tunicates, tube worms etc.
Steve Tyree has done some extensive study on cryptic zone filtration.
Henry this is a copy a responce from Tyree to hobbyists i found on the web
Hello,
This is the author of the book CMAT Volume 1 Cryptic Sponge and Sea Squirt Filtration.
Its nice to see comments about the book from reef aquarist who have actually read it !
I have a few minutes to address some of the specific items mentioned within this thread.
>Reefstud wrote
>First let me say that I think he may have "rushed" the book out
Nope. Was written from mid-1999 to mid-2000. Research occurred from 1995 to 1999.
>Reefstud wrote
>without substantial data to support any of his conclusions.
Please provide a specifc example so I could address it for you. There were dozens
of conclusions drawn that had scientific research supporting them as well as anectodal
observations. There was even quite a bit of original science that I did.
>Reefstud Wrote
>He is moving towards a more complex system that I feel will incorporate a dsb, etc.
Not exactly. Moving toward a zonal approach to modelling the tropical reef platform.
Wont have much on sediment beds or protein skimmers in volume 2.
>Reefstud wrote
>"Research Phase 2" which is underway will hopefully answer a lot of the questions he
>didn't answer in his first book.
The second volume is going into new areas. The semi-cryptic zone and the semi-exposed
zone. There will be a formal definition of the crytpic zone and exposed zones, but all the
basic information is covered in volume 1 concerning those 2 zones. If you have any questions
concerning the data in volume 1, feel free to post it on my web site.
http://www.dynamicecomorphology.com/getzoned.htm
>Reefstud wrote
>I posted this in Dr. Ron's forum and he dismissed it a little too quickly
Ron has also accused me of plagarism without providing a specific example. He later
retracted that statement. His remarks about sponges only consuming bacteria demonstrates
he has not read Captive Oceans Volume 1 (Living Sponges) and has not read CMAT volume 1.
My theories are grounded in science. The problem is that it is relatively new science
and science that has been traditionally ignored. For example: Dr. Adey told me during
Macna X that he had not even read any of Reiswigs work.
>Brad Ward wrote
>I just went through a massive sponge die off with my sps system.
In the Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Volume 3, Alf Nilsen recommended not keeping cryptic
>sponges at all. He assumed they could not be kept.
One of the problems berlin aquarist have is that opportunistic species can proliferate even within
the semi-exposed and semi-cryptic sheltered areas of a typical brightly lighted modern
coral reef aquarium. If is much safer to have a separate area for them to grow. One that
wont be exposed to occasional high levels of sedimentation, turbidity and sudden intense
light exposure.
>Reefstud wrote
> I think he does not like the fact that Tyree is not a member of the "legitimate"
>scientific community.Tyree publishes his own books without any kind of peer review.
The problem with peer review is that this is leading edge stuff, based on very new
science or traditonally ignored science. Those with their feet firmly planted in the
ground, take too long to convince and too long to educate. I dont plan on slowing
down to please any community. Life is short.
>Reefstud wrote
>If anyone thinks publishing "Cryptic Sponge and Sea Squirt Filtration methods" is an
>attempt to make a lot of money or to defraud the hobby then that person needs a reality
>check.
I am doing research that I find interesting. The fact that I can support this research
minimally by selling books helps to keep this research unbiased by outside financial
interests. Hey, I could have taken a check from a product manufacturer (wont be named)
and stated for the manufacturer, 'This product has allowed me to prolifically grow
sponges in my systems !' Since I did not need the product to prolifically grow sponges,
I did not take the check.
>Brad Ward wrote
>When your live rock filled tank matures, you have all those areas that Tyree calls the
>cryptic zones.
Not exactly. You will have semi-exposed and semi-cryptic sheltered zones that are
occurring within a shallow water habitat. These zones are however not very supportive
of the cryptic animals. There can be frequent intervals of turbid water that can kill
off the cryptic organisms. These internal cavities and crevices can also be overwhelmed
by deposits of particulate matter. They can support cryptic animals short term, but
are more suited for semi-cryptic and semi-exposed animals.
>Brad Ward wrote
> Sponges grow without any help or planning in nost of the reef structures everyone
>already has!
Actually, what you are really doing is repopulating the rocks with sponges and other
semi-cryptic organisms. These organisms were killed of by the collecting and
transporting process. There are what decomposes during the curing process.
>Brad Ward wrote
>I think that's why Ron wasn't that interested.
My job is not to impress Ron. My books are attempting to get cutting edge research
into the hobbyist hands.
>Reefstud wrote
>I don't think Tyree is trying to claim the discovery of cryptic zones.
Definitly not. 'Cryptic Zones', 'Cryptofauna' and 'Environmental Gradient' have appeared
in the scientific literature for quite a while. I am just taking these ideas and concepts
and utilizing them to define a new Tropical Reef Platform Modelling theory.
>garbled wrote
>I fully agree with those people who have stated that low flow areas will sometimes exist
>in your aquarium, without going to the extremes Steve Tyree went to to create them.
They are only superficially recreating the semi-cryptic zones. The tropical reef
platform itself has at least one half of its inhabitable surface structure as cryptic
zones. Most hobbyist tanks contain mostly exposed zones with only a minor amount of
cracks and crevices for the cryptic zone.
>garbled wrote
>And yes, sponges will proliferate without your help.
But they typically wont do very well in those habitats. The growth rates of cryptic to
semi-cryptic sponges and cryptic to semi-cryptic sea squirts is simply amazing.
>garbled wrote
> that he is attempting to maximize the surface area for these sponges to grow in, by
>creating a specific habitat that is specific to thier needs. In this way, he is trying
>to grow a greater sponge biomass than what would occur in your average tank, and by
>doing so, he can remove the skimmer completely from the equasion.
Thanks. You stated that position very well.
>garbled wrote
>I don't think that he has it comletely nailed down yet.
> But I think he has struck upon some key ideas,
Within the CMAT volume 1 book their is plenty of new science referenced and reviewed
that is extremely important to the captive reef hobby. Some of it has not appeared in
print for the captive reef market before. Since that science is 'credited' science,
it should not be ignored.
>Brad Ward wrote
>All Steve is proposing is a refugium for low light low flow sponge colonies.
Not exactly. I am proposing that you should stop ignoring the cryptic zones of
the tropical reef platform. There are more cryptic surfaces than there are exposed.
>Brad wrote
>I prefer to use the space I have with something far more interesting than rocks
>with sponges.
Actually, once the sponges and squirts are populating a proper cryptic zone,
a whole bunch of other animals start showing up. Besides, sponges and squirts
are some of the most colorful organisms that inhabit reef platforms.
>Brad wrote
>Steve had a sump full of rock back when I visited his apt. in 95. I bet he got
>the idea when he had to move and break down the two tanks that were in the living
>room and discovered massive amounts of sponge.
Thanks for visitnig me in the past Brad. Within my book I did state that the
sponges I found growing in that sump surprised me. Also mentioned that to over
500 people at Macna X. There was also some wierd sponge growth under the
rocks in my 180 exposed reef flats. Then of course RTN hit in 1996 and almost
destroyed the SPS market.
>Brad wrote
>I also run my tanks w/o chillers because of the cost.
It is also expensive to run a skimmer and also to run a lighted refugium.
The cryptic refugium has minimal power requirements. The internal cryptic
zone has almost none.
>Brad wrote
>Having a skimmer on my tank is like a security blanket as far as
>spawning goes as well. I have had spawning clams totally fog the tank with eggs
>and sperm. I wouldn't want to think what would have happened in a skimmerless
>system.
Actually, the spawns are food for the sponges and sea squirts. They can filter
the water very quickly. If you have an internal cryptic zone they will also keep
filtering during a long power outage.
