what is needed to set up a sump?

[1990jpyj]

ok so i plan on building a sump/fuge for my 55g tank this winter,and i am trying to figure out what i will need.
i would like to build it in a 30L .
i plan on using an overflow, so i dont have to drill.
my questions are what types of things(equipment) should i be looking at?
i would also like a good place to get some more info on how a sump works with an overflow.
thank you

 

[mboswell1982]

go with x's idea of using cutting boards for ur baffles saves u money

 

[culp]

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2863619
go with x's idea of using cutting boards for ur baffles saves u money
Cutting boards work but i still prefer good old fashion glass.
things that you might want for a sump is stuff like. egg crate, sand or mud, micro algae, protein skimmer, filter sock and return pump.

 

[culp]

and for info on sumps just google melevsreef.

 

[1990jpyj]

i have looked at mells reef. now here is one of my main question
how does an over flow work?

 

[mboswell1982]

hey, i can answer this one

an overflow, *prays he gets this right*, basically holds excess water, keeping your tank from overflowing if the pump burns out
if im wrong, forgive me, an hopefully someone will correct me if i am wrong

 

[natclanwy]

If I rember right Melvs has a good animation to show how they work, but I will try to describe it the best that I can.
Before I start the "U-tube" style overflows are far and away more reliable than the CPR molded acrylic style overflows both work on the same concept but the u-tube is a superior design despite the marketing that CPR uses.
A u-tube overflow has three basic components the inside overflow box which is used to regulate the height of water in the tank, the external overflow box which is used to drain the water to the sump and also maintain a specific water level to keep the U-tube from losing syphon. The last component is the U-tube which is just a piece of tubing that syphons water over the side of the tank. The U-tube tries to equalize the water level in the inside overflow box and the outside overflow box so as long as you are adding water to the DT it will continue to overflow the internal box and then the u-tube will syphon it out to the external box which has two compartments, one where the end of the u-tube exits and the other has the drain. As water is syphoned over the side of the tank it fills the first compartment and then overflows in the second compartment then drains to the sump. When you stop adding water to the DT water stops flowing into the internal box and the U-tube will equalize the water level in the two boxes to the hieght of the baffle in the external box. The baffle is high enough to keep both ends of the U-tube submerged so that air cannot be introduced to the u-tube. When the return pump resumes the cycle starts again.
Hopefully I explained it well enough, they are difficult to understand until you have seen one in operation.
Also the number one cause for floods when using a HOB overflow box is using an undersized pump. If your pump is too small the flow rate isn't fast enough to evacuate the air bubbles that manage to find their way into the u-tube.

 

[1990jpyj]

ok so if i get everything correctly this is how it basically works:
overflow drains to sump-goes trought sump-stops in holding chamber-goes bck into DT, then went DT level is high enough it fills the overflow up and does the whole thing all over again.
tha is how i under stand it.

 

[mboswell1982]

hey chris, if you can, drill it, u still need the overflow, but, its more reliable than a HOB overflow with the U piece connecting the 2 boxes, if you lose suction in that U, u lose flow, period, and then u can drain ur sump, and burn out ur pump, and power water everywhere on the floor

 

[1990jpyj]

im gonna try and stay away from drilling at this time. i would like to try the HOB overflow for now. this is really me trying to figure out how to set up my next tank without going crazy and spending all this time on having my 55g down. my goal it to get this whole thing set up and fix all the mistakes i made when i first set up the 55g( CC, all HOB filters, ugly background). so this all has to get set up within a few hours. i dont want to lose all my fish to fix my problems/experements.

 

[natclanwy]

Originally Posted by 1990jpyj
http:///forum/post/2863866
ok so if i get everything correctly this is how it basically works:
overflow drains to sump-goes trought sump-stops in holding chamber-goes bck into DT, then went DT level is high enough it fills the overflow up and does the whole thing all over again.
tha is how i under stand it.
Basically yes

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2863869
hey chris, if you can, drill it, u still need the overflow, but, its more reliable than a HOB overflow with the U piece connecting the 2 boxes, if you lose suction in that U, u lose flow, period, and then u can drain ur sump, and burn out ur pump, and power water everywhere on the floor
Setup correctly there really isn't much difference in reliability, the biggest risk you will have is a snail crawling into the u-tube or algae growth that chokes it off, but the same could happen on an internal overflow. I won't argue that a drilled tank is a better design because they aren't reliant on a high flow rate, and if you have the opportunity to drill the tank or buy one that is already drilled go for it.

 

[mboswell1982]

ahhhhhhh gotcha, i thought it was a new tank man lol oops yeah, hob overflow system is the way to go, if you got the cash to spend, buy a premade sump/refugium

 

[1990jpyj]

this one im gonna make cuz i have some very specific space needs. so no premade one will work. its probly gonna be a custom acrylic design, unless i build a new stand(not sure if i want to yet...) but its all in the works. just starting to do the reaserch on everything.
now for a return pump what should i be using.
55g DT
estemated 30g sump holding about 20g all the time
has to travel up about 5 feet with 2 90* bends

 

[mboswell1982]

mag 12 pump, maybe even the next level up from that, those 90 degree bends is whats gonna be killer, hmmmmmm, are you gonna get a skimmer? id go with a reef octo nw110, its rated for 90 gallons total, so you should be golden on that man

 

[1990jpyj]

i havnt started to even get into the skimmers yet. i know it will be an octo. just no sure which one yet. i would like one rated for double my tank size. so at a minimum of 110g but i would like more, cuz it will be like an 80ish gallon tank so 150-220g is what im gonna shoot for. i like to over do things when it comes to filtration.

 

[jimmy40741]

Originally Posted by 1990jpyj
http:///forum/post/2863602
i would like to build it in a 30L .
i plan on using an overflow, so i dont have to drill.
my questions are what types of things(equipment) should i be looking at?
I built my sump out of a 30L also. What you are going to need is an overflow, pvc and/or flex hose, something to make your baffles (glass, cutting boards, etc), silcone, a return pump, and a filter media (filter sock, filter floss).
One thing to remember is you need to match your overflow and return pump. So if you are going to use say a mag 7 for your return pump make sure you get an overflow that can handle it and vise versa. Also, when looking at pumps make sure you know how high above the pump the return in your DT is going to be and look up the pump's head loss.
There are literally hundreds of different combinations of sump configurations and you need to look around at what other people have done, talk to people who have actually used different configurations and equipment, and decide what you think will work best for you.

 

[1990jpyj]

Jimmy-maybe you could save me a little bit of trouble: is there any way you could get me a few pics of your set-up and a list of things you used. if you could that would be awsome. if not thats fine to. at this point any tips/pic's and any other advise is good right now.
thank you
chris

 

[jimmy40741]

Sure. Send me a private message with your email addy and take some pics and type something up for you this weekend.

 

[1990jpyj]

PM sent thanks again for the help

 

[natclanwy]

A mag 12 is going to overkill for a tank that size running a single HOB overflow box, a mag 9.5 will be more than enough for most setups, first thing you need to do is choose an overflow box then try to match your pump after headloss is subtracted to within 70-100% of the overflow box flow rating.
mboswell1982 The two 90 deg fittings he is planning are pretty insignificant they amount to about .1-.3 feet of headloss depending on the size of plumbing and return pump used.