What is wrong with my tank :( Please help

[kawasakizx636]

Hey everyone, here's my setup....
46g bowfront
Tek T5 36" 4X39W Light fixture
2X ATI Blue Plus T5
ATI Purple Plus T5
KZ NewGen T5
2X Koralia 750 powerheads
AquaClear 110
Heater
2X PC fans
BRS 75 GPD RO/DI 5 Stage Plus System
ReefKeeper Lite
sans-serif;background-color:rgb(235,235,235);" />
Two clowns
Orange spotted goby
Purple fire goby
Green spotted mandarin
Two blood shrimp
Six red scarlet crabs
Roughly fifteen snails
Two emerald crabs
Frogspawn
Green trumpet
Green donut
Star polyps
ckground-color:rgb(235,235,235);">Anthelia
Acanthastrea
Hammer
Water tests....
PH 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Calcium 430 ppm
Alkalinity 8.4 dkh
Magnesium 1350 ppm
Salinity 1.0255
Phosphorous 16 ppb
I've been currently having issues with red hair algae, and last month i decided to do the four day thing with lights off and blanket over the tank. Well that seemed to have help to kill the hair algae, but now, two fish died "purple fire goby and orange spot blenny", and most of my coral isn't really opening up. My water seems to be a lil cloudy but i've done tests and everything seems ok. I have no idea what could be happening. Can someone please help

 

[beth]

Hello, I moved your topic over to our Reef forum where you should get some help.
How long has your tank been set up? Do you have live rock and live sand? No skimmer? How is water movement in your tank? You should see good flow throughout with water movement at the surface as well.

 

[kawasakizx636]

I've had the tank setup for awhile now, cpl years. I don't have a skimmer on my tank. I'm hoping to build a new stand soon and have a sump with skimmer. I do have live rock and live sand. Water movement seems great, when i feed the tank, the food goes everywhere. Lots of movement on the surface also.

 

[flower]

Hi,
Corals need light to live and I'm afraid turning off the lights was not ther best thing to do.
The algae did die off without light, but the dying algae then polluted the tank. You have too much phosphates and nitrates that the algae was using to grow, and when it died it dumped it back into the tank. phosphates for a reef SHOULD be under 1 and your reading is 16...that level of phosphates will kill coral and fish.
Run some carbon, and do a big water change...then make some more water up and do another big water change. Use the old saltwater that you remove to scrub the algae off the rock in a seperate bucket before you put it back in.
I say run carbon because moving the rocks will stir up the sand, and it might have toxins trapped in it. You don't need to take a chance on any more headaches.

 

[kawasakizx636]

Thank you for the reply. As for the lights being off affecting the corals, i understand that they need light, but i've read in many threads, that the coral will be fine for a few days without light. My coral was perfectly fine for a few weeks after having the lights off. But, you're guaranteed right about the phosphates releasing into the tank when the hair algae died, and that's what i'm thinking is hurting my tank, but i've done tests and they don't seem too crazy, i also brought in a water sample to my local reef store, and they couldn't see any phosphates, i've found 16 with my hannah checker, but that's 16ppb, not 16ppm, so it's really 0.016ppm. I'm pretty sure my phosphates aren't too high to be killing stuff.
As for running carbon, i have carbon in my filter that i change once a month. I usually do about 20% water change every three weeks, but lately i've been doing it once a week, but my local reef store, told me that i shouldn't be doing 20% changes every week since it might recycle the tank. Also said that i should just be changing about 10% at a time.
I also notice some brown fluffy algae growing on my sand since my sand sifting orange spotted goby isn't around anymore to stir up the sand Also, all my snails seem to be hiding in the lower back of the tank.

 

[novahobbies]

Kawasaki,
Go to your local bookseller and grab the latest edition of "CORAL" magazine....ironically there's an article in this month's issue that discusses some of the problems with "old tank syndrome" that might give you some insights into your problem. It basically discusses the action of phosphate accumulation on the live rock...it reacts with the calcium carbonate of the limestone over time, and develops as calcium phosphates (there are apparently a number of different isomers of calcium phosphate) which will cause algae growth, since the phosphate needed for algae production is right there on and in the old live rock. Almost like a natural fertilizer.
If you feel like this is a part of your problem, you can slowly change out your live rock with new material. In any case, you should check the article out, it was pretty good.
Now, I have a question. You keep saying "red hair algae." Are you talking about red turf algae, a filamentous and tough algae that grows like a carpet, or is it more of a red slime algae? I only ask because I have a little experience with red turf algae, and it was a complete bear to control. Honestly I never got it completely under control.
As for your fish dying. Is it possible that your O2 levels are low? I noticed you said the tank was filtered with an Aquaclear 110. It's a decent filter, but not really a great one for helping oxygenate the tank. I also note that you said there was water movement across the top of the tank. GREAT, this will help increase O2, but is your tank covered? If so....might want to take the cover off.
Any large die-off in our tank is going to suck some oxygen out of the system. Killing off some of the algae as you did will release ammonia and phosphate into the system, causing aerobic bacteria populations to increase (as they metabolize the Ammonia and other goodies) which will drop the O2.
Other things to think about since your tank is a couple years old: how old are the lights? T5s should be swapped out ever 9-12 months. Also remember that if your Hanna meter is showing ANY phosphate, you actually have more than the meter shows because the algae is using phosphate from somewhere. When you get to the point where your stand and sump are done, I would recommend a good quality skimmer and possibly a GFO reactor for phosphates.
OK, I apologize if this post rambled. I hope there was a good nugget or two in here for you.

 

[flower]

Just to add a little to what Nova posted...you will get a false reading on phosphates when you have algae...the algae is feeding off of it. Macroalgae and your hair/turf algae all work the same way...it feeds on the phosphates and nitrates. It makes the water pristine by absorbing it out of the water, but hair/turf algae looks bad. The algae would not be able to grow without the phosphates, nitrates and extra nutrients to feed it. Doing water changes will not cause a spike, very little good bacteria is in the water...it is on the rock and sandbed. You could do water changes every single day and not cause an ammonia spike, which is what starts the cycle.

 

[kawasakizx636]

sweet thanks guys. as for the hair algea, it's the strong turf carpet stuff, but there's a couple spots where it's like slime. About the o2 levels, my korilia pumps were full of algae and i think that was ruining some of my flow, i took both pumps out last night, and scrubed them real good. It seems like i have a lot more movement in the tank. I'm hoping that was part of the issue. My t5 lights are about a year old, i'm about to change them.
Thanks Flower for clearing up the water change thing. I think i'll do another water change in the next day or two. I wanna see how my coral will react today with the better current.

 

[acrylic51]

Good info Nova.......To the OP there's nothing wrong with doing a period of lights out at all....Corals shouldn't be affected very much if at all......You might want to slowly acclimate them back to light instead of going full bore with your previous lighting regimen though.....As far as your LFS saying that water changes would/could start a cycle.....That's incorrect information as Flower pointed out.

 

[kawasakizx636]

thanks man, and yea, when i turned the lights back on, i slowly brought up the timers for more light. and as for my local reef store, i think it's because it's the lady working and not the owner, i don't think she really knows her stuff. should my lights be ok with 8.5 hrs of light? or is that not enough? my blue lights come on a 12pm, then the main lights come on at 1:30pm, the mains turn off at 7pm and the blue lights turn off at 8:30pm. Also, does having my living room lights on when the tank lights are off affect the tank? i've been staying up late lately and have been covering the tank so that the tank gets darkness. Thanks guys for all the info. I really want to save this tank. I'm wondering if i should maybe throw in another pump, but i think i should be overkill right now, my tank is only a 46g bowfront and i have two 750 korilia pumps with a 110 hang on back. I'd really like to get another sand sifting goby since my sand bed is starting to look bad with the brown fluffy algae, but i don't want to add anything to the tank until i notice some improvement.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakizx636 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508936
thanks man, and yea, when i turned the lights back on, i slowly brought up the timers for more light. and as for my local reef store, i think it's because it's the lady working and not the owner, i don't think she really knows her stuff. should my lights be ok with 8.5 hrs of light? or is that not enough? my blue lights come on a 12pm, then the main lights come on at 1:30pm, the mains turn off at 7pm and the blue lights turn off at 8:30pm. Also, does having my living room lights on when the tank lights are off affect the tank? I've been staying up late lately and have been covering the tank so that the tank gets darkness. Thanks guys for all the info. I really want to save this tank. I'm wondering if i should maybe throw in another pump, but i think i should be overkill right now, my tank is only a 46g bow front and i have two 750 korilia pumps with a 110 hang on back. I'd really like to get another sand sifting goby since my sand bed is starting to look bad with the brown fluffy algae, but i don't want to add anything to the tank until i notice some improvement.
Each tank is different as far as amount of light, but personally I think the 8.5 hours is to long.....There have been studies done and proven that our tanks don't need that long of a photo period to thrive.....It might be a little different since your bulbs are on the decline, but IMO 8.5 hours is to long....
I'd add another pump personally.....I thought I read about good water movement at the surface, but IMO that means very little to me.....How is the water flow elsewhere in the tank....You could have tons of flow at the surface and crap settling out in the tank.....That would mean water movement on the surface is doing very little for you.....Water flow be it from PH's, pumps should be used efficiently and efficiently means that it should push your detritus toward your filter or overflow. This is an area where very few people spend time studying or trying to replicate.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakizx636 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508868
Thank you for the reply. As for the lights being off affecting the corals, i understand that they need light, but i've read in many threads, that the coral will be fine for a few days without light. My coral was perfectly fine for a few weeks after having the lights off. But, you're guaranteed right about the phosphates releasing into the tank when the hair algae died, and that's what i'm thinking is hurting my tank, but i've done tests and they don't seem too crazy, i also brought in a water sample to my local reef store, and they couldn't see any phosphates, i've found 16 with my hannah checker, but that's 16ppb, not 16ppm, so it's really 0.016ppm. I'm pretty sure my phosphates aren't too high to be killing stuff.
As for running carbon, i have carbon in my filter that i change once a month. I usually do about 20% water change every three weeks, but lately i've been doing it once a week, but my local reef store, told me that i shouldn't be doing 20% changes every week since it might recycle the tank. Also said that i should just be changing about 10% at a time.
I also notice some brown fluffy algae growing on my sand since my sand sifting orange spotted goby isn't around anymore to stir up the sand Also, all my snails seem to be hiding in the lower back of the tank.
It's possible depending on the pollutants that are present and the quality or lack of quality of the carbon in your filter I might be inclined to believe that the carbon is long exhausted before the monthly change out......

 

[kawasakizx636]

The flow in the tank seems pretty good, when i feed the tank, the food goes everywhere, behind and in front of the rocks. I also notice the algae and all my corals moving from the flow, but i think i might add another lil one, and point it in back of the rocks.
8.5hrs is too long? wow, i thought it wasn't enough. i read everywhere that people have them on for 10 hrs. my main lights are actually only on for 5.5 hrs. Hmm, i guess i'll look into it some more.

 

[kawasakizx636]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508939
It's possible depending on the pollutants that are present and the quality or lack of quality of the carbon in your filter I might be inclined to believe that the carbon is long exhausted before the monthly change out......
are you saying that i should change the carbon more frequently? Or to by buying different carbon?

 

[acrylic51]

What carbon are you using.....I'm not implying it's exhausted, but depending on the real stats of the tank, it's highly possible it is being exhausted before it's changed out, and depending on the type; quality of carbon your using it could be leaching what it absorbed from the tank back into the tank as well.....Not all carbons are created equal.

 

[kawasakizx636]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508944
What carbon are you using.....I'm not implying it's exhausted, but depending on the real stats of the tank, it's highly possible it is being exhausted before it's changed out, and depending on the type; quality of carbon your using it could be leaching what it absorbed from the tank back into the tank as well.....Not all carbons are created equal.
I'm using the carbon insert that are for the aqua clear 110.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakizx636 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508941
The flow in the tank seems pretty good, when i feed the tank, the food goes everywhere, behind and in front of the rocks. I also notice the algae and all my corals moving from the flow, but i think i might add another lil one, and point it in back of the rocks.
8.5hrs is too long? wow, i thought it wasn't enough. i read everywhere that people have them on for 10 hrs. my main lights are actually only on for 5.5 hrs. Hmm, i guess i'll look into it some more.
If algae isn't a problem you can run the lights longer...lights are not what causes the algae (unless it's direct sunlight) Algae is caused from too much phosphates, nutrients and nitrates in the water. Algae is always present in a fish tank, that's why we have a CUC, but the algae should be kept in check by the CUC and if it has too much to feed on, it gets out of control....such as your case. Extra flow to not have any dead spots will prevent cyanobacteria and keep the rock clear of detritus buildup.
I agree with acrylic51, not all carbon is created equal. I always thought carbon only removes toxins, and didn't do much for nitrates, extra nutrients and phosphates. If that's true, then the carbon has little to do with your problem or the abilty to fix it. Water changes starting with good RO (Reverse Osmoses) water is the best way to clear your water and restore it to pristine condition.

 

[kawasakizx636]

Thanks for the reply. What is a CUC? And i'm using good RO water. I've bought the RODI unit from BRS. I'm using Instant Ocean salt which i've tested and get perfect results.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakizx636 http:///t/394240/what-is-wrong-with-my-tank-please-help#post_3508949
Thanks for the reply. What is a CUC? And i'm using good RO water. I've bought the RODI unit from BRS. I'm using Instant Ocean salt which i've tested and get perfect results.
CUC = Clean Up Crew: A combination of..... snails, hermits or other crabs, serpent or brittle stars, bristle worms, filter feeding fan-worms, clams or other bivalves along with all the tiny crtters that live in the rocks and sand.

 

[novahobbies]

Maybe I missed it, but did you say whether you had a glass top on this tank? If so, removing it will help the O2 level in the tank by a good amount. This will help the possible fish die-off, but has nothing to do with the phosphates.