What on earth has happened to me??

[ryebread]

Okay you beautiful people out there-
Some of you may "know" me and many of you do not. Let's just say that I've gone through some major life changes in the past couple of years and I've been "Spiritually Awakened".
Now hold on.....don't hit the exit button just yet. I need some help.
I'm currently about halfway through a lengthy process to become a Cincinnati Police Officer. God placed this line of work on my heart and I'm going to follow his leading until he places a wall in front of me.
Other than the cop thing - I'm also.....take a deep breath.....planting a church. I'm not the person directly in charge of this church plant but, I am fairly high up and very involved in the process. We are currently having our first gathering on Thursday of this week. The first one will basically just be a core group of people.
Here's the deal - This is not going to be a small church. We are actually counting on having a place that will handle somewhere in the range of 6-8 thousand people in the future. Here's the other deal - We are erasing as much "religion" from the equation as possible.
Personally, I was never willing to accept anything from any church for most of my life. I didn't want to be "handed my faith" and just accept it for what it was. That's why it never worked for me. I needed something different. A blessing came my way and I found what I needed to figure out that God loved me. Many are not so fortunate.
What we are creating is a place where people will come to meet God. Where they will experience a Spiritual Presence and a Love that is unlike anything this world can offer. We will be teaching and spreading the love of Jesus Christ to all. All are worthy....you have never met one person who Jesus didn't die for. Never.
I'm starting to ramble. Sorry.
Here's my question for you. With the emerging generation less likely to accept anything wrapped up in a church package....what would church look like? What would have to be done to allow you to feel comfortable? What do you currently hate about church? I have tons of things that I hate about it.
Can I get some feedback? All opinions are valid. Please share your feelings on the subject.....whatever that subject is.

 

[moraym]

Not to offend, but are you trying to plan a church based on what would make it the most popular?
I'm just trying to figure out in your religion has a preset name and belief structure, or if you're trying to back into creating a religion based on what would sell, kind of like figuring out the key marketing points first and creating a belief structure later. That is what is sounds like if youre "erasing as much "religion" from the equation as possible", sounds like you're aiming for popularity over spirituality.
Because the approach to "marketing the church" would differ depending on if it's a preset "name-brand (if you will)" religion or if it's a start-up project.

 

[tangman99]

It sounds like you want to do a non-denominational church where you don't fly any one "flag". We have a few in my town and their message is much what you are explaining.
I'm like you in one respect that I don't care for any church but if I had to pick one that I like the most it would be the Catholic church. It's more ceremonial and less "fire and brimstone" which seems to be the only message that southern baptists (Of which I grew up mostly) seem to know how to preach.
I would like a church that can accept modern science and combine the ideas of creationism and evolution.
Overall, make people seem welcome and don't be negative in tone. Let people do what feels comfortable and don't put people on the spot. The biggest thing that totally turned me against the baptist church was always wanting you to come down and testify (or whatever it's called). Even if you did it last week, you were made to feel like if you did not come down again you were hell bound. I also hated the "borg" mentality that the whole world needed to be assimilated into the collective. "We are going to save the world and it is your duty to get out and spread the word." Now I may be unfair is saying the "Baptist church" as all inclusive, but every one (and I've been to many) that I've been to small towns in the south are exactly like. I guess I'm rambling now.
To answer your question of what would make me feel comfortable is to have an atmosphere where I feel like I came because I wanted to come and not because I feel like I had to come. One where I can hear about the good things in the world and not constantly whats wrong with people and the world. Oh, and one other thing. Keep the services short. Nothing is worse than starving to death on Sunday and the preacher going on and on without saying anything he hasn't already said 5 times.
Good luck. Being a former cop, I'm more intersted in your police career. I'm sure you will find that very rewarding.

 

[ryebread]

Originally posted by MorayM
Not to offend, but are you trying to plan a church based on what would make it the most popular?

No offense taken my good sir. It's a good question and I'm glad you mentioned that.....I didn't mean for it to sound that way. We aren't looking to "win" people over hear. As far as the church being big....I think that it will be large in impact more than anything. Number of people doesn't matter......the amount of God's love shared does. We will never water down the message of Jesus....that's not our intent. Our intent is to have a place like what TangMan99 said - where you want to go....not feel like you have to go. A place where there isn't a formal or cookie-cutter service. We aren't looking to have anything set in stone. That's what the Holy Spirit is for.....to guide us. We will allow ourselves to be led. We may never have a gathering that's the same....that's okay. What's important is that the presence of God is felt.
What we want is a place where healing comes to the broken. A place where the homeless and the drug-addicts minister to the local businessman. Broken healers. A place where the teachings of Jesus Christ are embraced. A place where you leave with more questions than you came in with. That's the only way to own your own faith.
Never in the bible does it say "and they went to church." "They" were the church.

 

[moraym]

Ah, for a second it sounded like popularity over spirituality, which kind of smacks of "cult".

But now that I see where you're going, good luck with it. Though I was raised Roman Catholic, I'm in the same boat as you, I feel I can find myself full of the faith and full of religion without having to go into a physical building every Sunday. But that makes me an awful Catholic.:yes:

 

[dvs]

Cinnci Police Dept! Go Ryan!
Hope everything works out for ya!
:joy:
Jen

 

[nflnutswif]

Good for you and your endeavors!
JESUS WAS A COUNTRY BOY! by (CLAY WALKER) listen to it!

Lots of meaning in a little song!

 

[someone400]

Tangman, I grew up Southern Baptist myself and (as bad as it may sound) if I could find a way of getting out of going on Sunday then I would jump on it. I guess for a boy, the sermons did not seem to relate to anything for me and I would sleep through most anyway. I don’t see how you could expect the same sermon to reach adults as well as the younger generation. I also had the feeling that most people went because they wanted to be seen at church or felt obligated not out of a true desire.
But to answer the original question, I have been going (on and off) to a non-denominational church which tries to relate things to today’s life. It has been better for me personally. I agree with Tangman’s suggestions, and would say make it relate to everyday life, make it a relaxed atmosphere (but respectful) where you can come in jeans and not feel out of place. I would also suggest having separate services for the youngsters and adults. The church I currently attend holds them at the same time so the kids don’t have to sit through the adult service. Good luck.

 

[dave flood]

I listen to catholic radio every day now. I am not catholic. I don't like going to church. I don't care for all these new hocus pocus churches trying to make it more exciting & twisting the written word around. I like traditional religion myself. You have to have something if you ever had anything go bad or wrong youll understand.

 

[lovethesea]

SO!! There you are :joy: I have been wonderin' where you went. I am so glad you followed your heart to police work.
This new venture sounds wonderful too. My church up bringing has been full of pomp and circumstance. Raised episcopalian and still am and now raising 2 children in the catholic faith. I am of the same belief as MorayM. I am a good person, do good things in life for my family and others and feel that I don't need a place to go and show that. (I obviously don't share thta with my kids yet, they will form their own opinion in due time) BUT, everybody needs different things in life. So, I think its great and will probably be a welcome site in your community to see something like this being created.

 

[tizzo]

OK< this is where I will lay it all on the table and look like a religious fanatic for the moment. You asked for ideas that would help to attract people. I assume you mean non christians alike. I am a fairly new Christian so I definately remember my thought process BEFORE I became a Christian.
I find that most churches now are...boring. And I do not mean boring like what's to do boring, I mean there's no fire. No newness, no love. I guess I can use a relationship as an example. When it's new it's pumped!! When the honeymoon is over, you take each other for granted exept when you need something. Then, you not only ask it of the other person, but you actually BLAME them when you don't get it. Same as church. Right now I am "church hopping", I cannot find one I like because all that I find out there are, "What can he do for me?" or "Why he didn't do it my way" churches. I think to be successful, you should not put God in a box. Not limit Him to your understanding. Teach how incredibly big, and powerful he can be. And keep it real. Teach even what society does not want to hear. God is Jealous, put no others before Him. Not money, not your job, nothing. God gave free will to us then we turn around and ask why "He" let's these things happen.
Before I became a Christian some of my favorite "lines" were...
"If there is a God why does he let these things happen"?
"He performed miracles way back when everybody believed, but now, when we most need a sign, where is He?"
And my favorite (because I had a job he would DEFINATELY not approve of) "God understands why I do what I do! No need to change. I am not doing anything wrong, THEY are!! I can't help what they (guys) think, that's not MY problem.
Teach God all the way back from the basics and remember that a lot of people have a lot of questions that, if they don't get answered correctly and honestly, could stear them away from God.
Just don't be fake! I do not mean in your love for God. It's obvious that's sincere, but I mean do not bend what you know to be right to make people feel better so that they will continue to visit, so you will keep getting their tithes.
Good luck!!
Oh! And as far as appearance, I like the "Diner" appearance. Not like Waffle House, but a bunch of big round tables with about 6 to 8 chairs at each. Feels like a date, not an obligation.

 

[tony detroit]

I don't believe in becoming a "conniesseiur" of churches myself.

 

[nicetry]

Originally posted by RyeBread
We aren't looking to have anything set in stone.

Funny..I thought the Ten Commandments were set in stone.

 

[ryebread]

Good responses peeps! Thanks.
I don't really know that we're thinking about what to do to attract people. Quite honestly I don't believe anything we do will attract people in the right way......except maybe going back to the way it was.
In the Bible.....Peter, Paul, Jesus himself, etc.. were able to attract huge followings of people just by preaching the truth. They allowed people to experience God by showing them God........not by telling them about Him. We want to lead this thing by example. The primary goal is to "make disciples of Jesus who make disciples of Jesus".
The thing is.....we're not promoting ourselves here. We will be spokesmen for Jesus and we're ready to link arms with anyone who tells the story of Jesus. Unity will begin to unfold in our community and it will be an absolutely amazing thing to sit back and watch God work.
We can't forget the Holy Spirit here and what it's going to do for us. The Holy Spirit will bring us the people. What I was looking for as far as ideas go is this: What would help you to let God in?
I have heard it thousands of times already - "I don't go to church or anything but, I'm a really spiritual person."
HOW SO???? What do you do to be spiritual??? Can it be done with other people around????? Does it have anything to do with God????

 

[ryebread]

Originally posted by nicetry
Funny..I thought the Ten Commandments were set in stone.

Not that kind of set in stone.....I meant that we aren't looking to ever have a service/gathering/whatever that has a polished, planned-out feel or look to it. We want to invite God to be with us.......we don't want to call God on the phone and say "yeah, hey God....we need you to be here from 11:06 to about 11:31...oh and could you bring some of that Holy Spirit with you...thanks." That's putting God into a box.
We want to try different things that will allow us to feel His presence. IE: Taking communion together, sitting in silence for 15 minutes, turning to the person sitting next to you - putting a hand on their shoulder and ernestly praying for them. Things like that.

 

[lovethesea]

does a person need to be outwardly spiritual to have faith?

 

[tizzo]

Originally posted by lovethesea
does a person need to be outwardly spiritual to have faith?
It is my opinion that once you have accepted Christ and asked him to lead your way through life that it's kinda hard NOT to be outwardly spititual. The things you say, the way you act and treat others just kinda comes with the commitment. Simply believing that there is a God is not having faith. Having faith is asking His guidence in your day to day, hour to hour activities.
You should not be outwardly spiritual just to give the "impression" that you are a believer, because that is done for the wrong motive. But once you accept God and realize just how "big" he is, then it's kinda hard to keep something like that under wraps.

 

[nflnutswif]

On a lighter note: This is what I have hanging on a stone in my powder room!
Cowboys Ten Commandments
(1)Just one God
(2)Honor yer Ma & Pa
(3)No tellin tales or gossipin
(4)Git yurself to sunday meetin
(5)Put nuthin before God
(6)No foolin around with another fellas gal
(7)No killin
(8)Watch yer mouth
(9)Don't take what aint yurs
(10)Dont be hankerin for yer buddies stuff
Ya'll have a good day!

 

[elfdoctors]

Originally posted by nicetry
Funny..I thought the Ten Commandments were set in stone.
I would hope that your church would be allowed to interpret the bible rather than preaching a very literalistic interpretation of certain verses. The above statement is a perfect example of what not to do. Jesus himself told people to ignore the 10 commandments in favor of simply loving one another.
Loving one another also means not being judgemental. I feel sorry for people who profess that other people are going to hell if they don't believe in things like creationism, (or whatever their particular form of Christianity feels is important). This line of thought has done some very non-Christian things as it turns many people off to religion so they do not hear Jesus' true message.
Jesus spoke in parables. The bible can be interpreted as a parable also.
I am battling a group of people who are trying to teach creationism in the public schools. This has been a very difficult time for my community. I feel particularly sorry that it has also done extreme harm to the ecumenical movement. People from different Christian churches do not trust each other now. We can do great things if we work together.
Rye, are you still taking great fish pictures? Jesus loved fish people!

 

[nicetry]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
I would hope that your church would be allowed to interpret the bible rather than preaching a very literalistic interpretation of certain verses. The above statement is a perfect example of what not to do. Jesus himself told people to ignore the 10 commandments in favor of simply loving one another.
Loving one another also means not being judgemental.

Hmmm... I'm sensing some contradiction here, but then that's what some Christians do best. They say they're not judgemental, but only until someone professes a view different than their own. Thank you for reinforcing that. By the way, which "interpretation" is the correct one? I'd hate to get it wrong on judgement day.