What to do?

[southern wolf]

Hello all,
I'm new to the site and I have soooo many questions. I guess that's a good thing that I'm willing to ask before I jump in head first. Especially since it looks like a saltwater tank is gonna cost an arm and a leg. I'd rather do it right the first time vs. having to rinse and repeat until I get it right.
Just a little background.... I have been keeping freshwater community tanks for a while now and even had a 52gal African Cichlid setup for several years. I loved the Cichlids but got tired of their agressive behaviors and them always killing my bright blue special order species. I have always wanted a salt tank though. Guess its about time.
Here's what I have available to me and what I am wanting to do. I would appreciate any and all input that I can get to help me make a informed decision.
I currently have a 45gal cube tank sitting empty. It is approx 2 foot wide x 2 foot deep x 2 foot tall. I also have a 52gal tank that currently has a few community fish in it. The 52 is just a 55 that has the front corners removed and it's at an angle.
Here is a pic of it when I had the African Cichlids in it.

Here is what I would like to do....
I'm pretty sure that I am after a FOWLR scenerio. There are a few types of fish that I really want and I'd rather have a bunch of smaller fish vs. just a few large fish. I really love the colorations of the Damsils and Clowns. I am also thinking about a yellow Tang. Other things I would like to keep is some of the colorful small shrimp, and the Anemonie (sp?) for the clowns.
I guess I am after variety in the tank vs just a couple of show species. I am really looking for a nice array of color in the inhabitants... and maybe some sort of rock wall like I had with the Cichlids
I don't really have any desire for corals, but would love other things like the Anemonie's, and starfish for added interest.
The tank (whichever I use) will end up in the living room and it will likely be closer to Christmas before I begin the build. Before I do, I want to replace the carpeting so I dont have to worry about tearing the tank down in order to do that.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this... but I'm gonna ask it anyways. Which tank should I go with for my first Salt Tank. The 45 cube or the 52? The 45 is deeper so I figured it would allow more sandy area in front of the rock wall.
Also what do you think about my live stock wishes?
I am currently running a XP2 canister filter on the community tank. If I tear that tank down for salt would that filter be ok for the salt tank?
Thanks for all your help.

 

[flower]

Welcome to the site....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415400
Hello all,
I'm new to the site and I have soooo many questions. I guess that's a good thing that I'm willing to ask before I jump in head first. Especially since it looks like a saltwater tank is gonna cost an arm and a leg. I'd rather do it right the first time vs. having to rinse and repeat until I get it right. Good thinking...reading the 101 tips will help to get you started, at the top of new hobbyists forum
Just a little background.... I have been keeping freshwater community tanks for a while now and even had a 52gal African Cichlid setup for several years. I loved the Cichlids but got tired of their agressive behaviors and them always killing my bright blue special order species. I have always wanted a salt tank though. Guess its about time.
Here's what I have available to me and what I am wanting to do. I would appreciate any and all input that I can get to help me make a informed decision.
I currently have a 45gal cube tank sitting empty. It is approx 2 foot wide x 2 foot deep x 2 foot tall. I also have a 52gal tank that currently has a few community fish in it. The 52 is just a 55 that has the front corners removed and it's at an angle.
Here is a pic of it when I had the African Cichlids in it.

Here is what I would like to do....
I'm pretty sure that I am after a FOWLR scenerio. There are a few types of fish that I really want and I'd rather have a bunch of smaller fish vs. just a few large fish. I really love the colorations of the Damsils and Clowns. I am also thinking about a yellow Tang. Other things I would like to keep is some of the colorful small shrimp, and the Anemonie (sp?) for the clowns. Damsels are evil mean little fish and if you are tired of cichlid aggression, ain't seen nothen yet. All of your tank choices are too small for a tang, yellow tangs are also very territorial and aggressive. You can have a dwarf angelfish, they have awesome bright color but only one per tank.
I guess I am after variety in the tank vs just a couple of show species. I am really looking for a nice array of color in the inhabitants... and maybe some sort of rock wall like I had with the Cichlids You can make a rock wall...go to the search in this forum and look up foam back wall 101, I did it and it's super easy and beautiful.
I don't really have any desire for corals, but would love other things like the Anemonie's, and starfish for added interest. These need a mature tank of at least 6 months.
The tank (whichever I use) will end up in the living room and it will likely be closer to Christmas before I begin the build. Before I do, I want to replace the carpeting so I dont have to worry about tearing the tank down in order to do that.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this... but I'm gonna ask it anyways. Which tank should I go with for my first Salt Tank. The 45 cube or the 52? The 45 is deeper so I figured it would allow more sandy area in front of the rock wall. In Saltwater...the bigger the better.
Also what do you think about my live stock wishes?
I am currently running a XP2 canister filter on the community tank. If I tear that tank down for salt would that filter be ok for the salt tank? Yes, I ran canister filters I had on my freshwater tank for years...but a sump is better and easier.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[geoj]

Anemone requires strong lighting
And are trouble “My anemone is up over here, Under there, Got sucked in my power head, How do I move, My anemone won’t host My clown”

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJ http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415411
Anemone requires strong lighting
And are trouble “My anemone is up over here, Under there, Got sucked in my power head, How do I move, My anemone won’t host My clown”
LOL...Don't forget they are also fish eaters if the opportunity swims too close.

 

[southern wolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415406
Welcome to the site....
Thanks.... I've already read "Good thinking...reading the 101 tips will help to get you started, at the top of new hobbyists forum"
It did answer a whole lot of questions. I have also been doing a bit more reading after I posted this thread. I saw where a few folks said the Yellow Tang was not a good choice for a 55gal. Is there another species that I could get that has that beautiful yellow?
In reguards to the Dasmels.... should I decide to set up a 2nd tank (45 cube)... is it possible to do a Dasmels and CUC and limit the amount of agressions? Maybe doing another rock wall with plenty of hiding places. For my showcase tank I want variety though. I just love all the colors on the little buggers.
The rock wall in the Cichlid tank photo was real rock with lots of hiding places. That is what I would like to do in the Salt tank. Lots of places for the inhabitants to relax and swim thru. Figure I'll use base rock to build it and seed it with live rock. What do you think?
I think the sump kinda scares me.... knowing that if the parameters are correct it could siphon out my tank and flood the floor. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415432
Thanks.... I've already read [strike]"Good thinking...reading the 101 tips will help to get you started, at the top of new hobbyists forum"[/strike]
It did answer a whole lot of questions. I have also been doing a bit more reading after I posted this thread. I saw where a few folks said the Yellow Tang was not a good choice for a 55gal. Is there another species that I could get that has that beautiful yellow? The Lemonpeel dwarf angel fish is beautiful yellow with electric blue around the eyes and gills.
In reguards to the Dasmels.... should I decide to set up a 2nd tank (45 cube)... is it possible to do a Dasmels and CUC and limit the amount of agressions? Maybe doing another rock wall with plenty of hiding places. For my showcase tank I want variety though. I just love all the colors on the little buggers. Damsels kill each other off too, personally, I would just leave them alone...they grow up and bite you drawing blood, they are evil little fish.
The rock wall in the Cichlid tank photo was real rock with lots of hiding places. That is what I would like to do in the Salt tank. Lots of places for the inhabitants to relax and swim thru. Figure I'll use base rock to build it and seed it with live rock. What do you think? The rock wall is real rock as well, it is held together with the foam. All rock in a saltwater tank are stacked. It is not the same rock you built your cichlid wall with. Live rock does not stack that neat. Besides, you want little caves and nooks for the fish to hide in and swim through. You can certainly use dry rock and seed it with the live rock, but it is a certain type of rock that goes in a SW tank.
I think the sump kinda scares me.... knowing that if the parameters are correct it could siphon out my tank and flood the floor. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Ah, there is no person on this site more paranoid than me. A little hole at the top of the return line and it breaks the siphon instantly preventing any flooding. I used canister filters for years without a problem, sumps are just the easiest to maintain, it a place to hide equipment and gives extra water volume...all big pluses.

 

[southern wolf]

Thanks for your help Flowers. I'll definitely look into what you have suggested. That's one of the reason's I posted.... to get info from those more experienced than me. Which wouldn't take a whole lot LOL.
How many drawf Angels can you put in a tank? Are they peaceful fish?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415565
Thanks for your help Flowers. I'll definitely look into what you have suggested. That's one of the reason's I posted.... to get info from those more experienced than me. Which wouldn't take a whole lot LOL.
How many drawf Angels can you put in a tank? Are they peaceful fish?
Only one per tank, you will find that quite often in SW fish. The greatest challenge is finding those that can get along with each other, SW fish are very territorial. Fish with the same body type, color or food needs create fights. You can get a dottyback, those are some pretty fish...again just one, but it will get along with the angel. Blue reef chromis school, those are pretty sharp, I've been looking at getting some of them for my tank.
With a fish only tank you have lots of choices, I only know about the reef safe fish. There is a book you can get, and it's super great for checking out the fish and their needs to decide if you want one...I'm including a page so you can see the kind of info it offers. It's small enough to take with you to the pet store.

 

[southern wolf]

Here are a few fish that caught my eye. What do you think? Will they work with what I am wanting to do?
Pseudanthias squamipinnis "Lyretail Anthias"
Amphiprion ocellaris "Ocellaris Clownfish" -- Mixing clown species is asking for trouble as well. I'd stick to one type of clown fish, but you can have more than one of the same type
Centropyge argi "Cherub Pygmy Angel" -- Only one angel per tank like flower said
Centropyge ferrugata "Rusty Pygmy Angel" -- Only one angel per tank like flower said
Centropyge bicolor "Bicolor Pygmy Angel" -- Only one angel per tank like flower said
Centropyge heraldi "Yellow Pygmy Angel" -- Only one angel per tank like flower said
Gramma loreto "Royal Gramma" -- Royal Gramma OR the dotty back (otherwise they will fight)
Pictichromis diadema "Diadema Dottyback" -- Royal Gramma OR the dotty back (otherwise they will fight)
Centropyge flavissima "Lemonpeel Pygmy Angel" -- Only one angel per tank like flower said

Premnas biaculeatus "Goldstripe Maroon Clownfish" -- maroons get big and nasty.
Synchiropus picturatus "Green Mandarin Dragonet" -- need a very mature tank with self sustaining populations of copepods before purchasing a mandarin dragonet.
Synchiropus splendidus "Blue Mandarin Dragonet" -- need a very mature tank with self sustaining populations of copepods before purchasing a mandarin dragonet.
Coris gaimard "Yellowtail Coris Wrasse" -- gets too large for your setup and is not suitable
Plectorhinchus chaetodonoides "Clown Sweetlips" -- Your tank is way way too small for a Sweetlips. 200 Gallon minimum
Those are just a few that caught my eye while scrolling thru a site. I'm not saying I want to put all those in my tank... I'm just trying to get a working list of fish that will work with the tank I am trying to build. Then I can select specimens from that list to stock my tank when the time comes.
SUGGESTED:
Midas Blenny
Fairy Wrasse or Flasher Wrasse -- Also if you intend to ever get a wrasse or any long bodied fish you must cover the tank with mesh to prevent jumping
For the blue, you could do 3 blue reef chromis, but I would take the royal gramma/dottyback and fairy wrasse off the stocking list.

 

[southern wolf]

Thanks for the book suggestion and posting a page from it. Looks like it has a lot of useful info. I'll have to add one of those to my growing collection of books.

 

[southern wolf]

Do you know how many Damsels caught my eye while going thru that site. Those fish have some beautiful colorations on them and I LOVE the bright electric blue on them. Is there another fish that has that beautiful electric blue besides the Centropyge argi "Cherub Pygmy Angel" and Centropyge bicolor "Bicolor Pygmy Angel" ?

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415586
Here are a few fish that caught my eye. What do you think? Will they work with what I am wanting to do?
Gramma loreto "Royal Gramma"
Pictichromis diadema "Diadema Dottyback"
Amphiprion ocellaris "Ocellaris Clownfish"
Premnas biaculeatus "Goldstripe Maroon Clownfish"
Synchiropus picturatus "Green Mandarin Dragonet"
Synchiropus splendidus "Blue Mandarin Dragonet"
Coris gaimard "Yellowtail Coris Wrasse"
Centropyge argi "Cherub Pygmy Angel"
Centropyge ferrugata "Rusty Pygmy Angel"
Centropyge bicolor "Bicolor Pygmy Angel"
Centropyge heraldi "Yellow Pygmy Angel"
Pseudanthias squamipinnis "Lyretail Anthias"
Plectorhinchus chaetodonoides "Clown Sweetlips"
Centropyge flavissima "Lemonpeel Pygmy Angel"
Those are just a few that caught my eye while scrolling thru a site. I'm not saying I want to put all those in my tank... I'm just trying to get a working list of fish that will work with the tank I am trying to build. Then I can select specimens from that list to stock my tank when the time comes.
Here is what I would do from those fish choices:
Royal Gramma OR the dotty back (otherwise they will fight)
Ocellaris Clown (maroons get big and nasty)
1 dwarf angel of your choice and only one since they will fight
Midas Blenny
Fairy Wrasse or Flasher Wrasse
I purposely left off the mandarins since they have specific dietary needs and should not be tempted (IMO) in tanks without a refugium. The yellowtail coris wrasse gets too large for your setup and is not suitable. The clown sweetlips needs a 200 gallon tank to thrive.
For the blue, you could do 3 blue reef chromis, but I would take the royal gramma/dottyback and fairy wrasse off the stocking list.

 

[tur4k]

It will be a long time before you should even consider getting a mandarin. The vast majority of mandarin's eat only live copepods. You need a very mature tank with self sustaining populations of copepods before purchasing a mandarin dragonet. The majority of mandarins that are purchased in fish stores die of starvation in tanks that can't support them. Most people agree that a tank should be at least a year old before adding a mandarin.
Your tank is way way too small for a Sweetlips. They grow to over two feet and they grow fast. 200 Gallon minimum. Only one angel per tank like flower said. Mixing clown species is asking for trouble as well. I'd stick to one type of clown fish, but you can have more than one of the same type. Maroon Clowns can be pretty mean.

 

[southern wolf]

Thanks Gemmy & tur4k for helping me narrow down that list of fish. Im sure I'll find others that I like the looks of and I'll post them to get ya'lls opinion. I'd rather not make a stocking mistake that could be bad for the inhabitants.
Is there a thread on this site that list's fish by temperment? Like these certian fish are more communtiy orentented, these are extremely agressive, so on and so on?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415673
Thanks Gemmy & tur4k for helping me narrow down that list of fish. Im sure I'll find others that I like the looks of and I'll post them to get ya'lls opinion. I'd rather not make a stocking mistake that could be bad for the inhabitants.
Is there a thread on this site that list's fish by temperment? Like these certian fish are more communtiy orentented, these are extremely agressive, so on and so on?
There is a book that I feel everyone should have. I'm also posting a page so you can see the info it offers.


and one for inverts as well...a true must have IMO


Also if you intend to ever get a wrasse or any long bodied fish you must cover the tank with mesh to prevent jumping.

 

[southern wolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415610
For the blue, you could do 3 blue reef chromis, but I would take the royal gramma/dottyback and fairy wrasse off the stocking list.
So is the blue reef chromis not compatible with the royal gramma/dottyback and fairy wrasse? OR is it more of a only so many fish per tank thing?

 

[southern wolf]

I've updated my wish list on post number 9 with the info ya'll have given. This way I dont have to keep looking for it when it comes time to stock the tank. Maybe it will also help someone else in my position.
Guess you can tell I like to make visual lists LOL

 

[southern wolf]

Thanks Flower... .I'll definitely add those to my library.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415678
There is a book that I feel everyone should have. I'm also posting a page so you can see the info it offers.


and one for inverts as well...a true must have IMO


Also if you intend to ever get a wrasse or any long bodied fish you must cover the tank with mesh to prevent jumping.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/387827/what-to-do#post_3415680
So is the blue reef chromis not compatible with the royal gramma/dottyback and fairy wrasse? OR is it more of a only so many fish per tank thing?
From what I have read...The reef chromis are very docile nice fish and won't bother a thing. I'm thinking of getting a group of them for my 90g reef, since they like to school. Your other thing to consider is the tank size. Even a 55g is very limited on how many fish can be added. Saltwater fish should not be overcrfowded, it causes stress and stress causes disease and aggression.
Stocking is very different than freshwater, when you could really pack them in there. Keep in mind also the rock takes up space, which is why a rock foam wall is a nice choice. With your size tank you will be limited to about 5 or 6 small fish, the largest being the angelfish which will reach 4 to 5 inches when mature.
JUST IN CASE YOU WANT TO TRY A FOAM ROCK WALL.......Its very easy and it takes about 1 hour to do, and 24 hours before you can fill the tank. All you need is egg crate cut out for whatever filters and such...lay it flat on the back inside of the empty tank...take black pond foam..squirt it on a spot and push a piece of SW safe dry rock into the foam...keep doing that until your rock wall is comeplete. I used dry agagonite sand to fill any gaps that showed foam...like glitter what doesn't stick, it falls down to the bottom of the tank when you upright it (24 hours later) and you don't even have to remove it. One hint...put the larger pieces of rock toward the top and small or flat pieces toward the bottom...that way you can add a few pieces of live rock to the bottom of the tank to seed the rest and have it jut out and finish the whole 3D look and allow you to make some caves and nooks for the fish to swim through and hide making them feel safe.
I think I have a picture of my 30g rock wall before anything was added ( I added the hint because I wish I had done that)

 

[southern wolf]

That's a nice looking wall Flower.
Kinda makes me wish I had something larger than my 52gal.... espcieally if I can only get 5 or 6 fish in there. Guess I was imagining something similar to a reef that you see on the TV with fish just going everywhere.
Ok.... dont spank the n00b. What about some sort of eel?