What to look for in the QT tank

[stdreb27]

So I bought a coral beauty yesterday that had one loan white spot on this tail fin. The LFS said that they had had the fish for about 3 months. My question is, what is the behavior of Ich? I'm watching him now, but if in 3 or 4 weeks that is still there and the same, should I go ahead and add him to the DT and it is nothing. I'd assume if it spreads that I should hypo him. How do I really know what it is? He isn't scratching rocks, he is eating fine. What are the things if thens of potental things to watch for.

 

[rolxism]

I would personally hypo him. Having past problems with ick it defiantly looks like white spots that will spread very rapidly if it is ick. I've never had a coral beauty so im not sure how ick prone they are. But, I believe there is really no downside to hypo am I right? So id do it and leave him in the qt for a few weeks atleast and see if it develops or what not.

 

[beth]

It may be the prelude to ich, in which case many more spots will appear shortly, or it may be lymphocyctis.
Take a look at the pictures of ich and lymphocyctis in the Diseased Fish Thread, and then the info on these diseases in the FAQ Thread. Both at the top of this forum.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Beth
It may be the prelude to ich, in which case many more spots will appear shortly, or it may be lymphocyctis.
Take a look at the pictures of ich and lymphocyctis in the Diseased Fish Thread, and then the info on these diseases in the FAQ Thread. Both at the top of this forum.
I don't have a camera that would capture it, it is that small. It looks like a grain of sand on his tail, a really fine grain. It really don't look like anything in the pictures. It is circular not lumpy but it is sooo small It is really hard to tell.

 

[ccampbell57]

Before you do anything drastic to the fish, let it be for a few weeks and keep a close eye on it. Many times in this hobby people jump to conclusions and start medicating or hypoing for fish that are stressed.
We all should just take a step back and remember that we are more stressed than the fish is. Give it some time to relax and acclimate and see what transpires over the next couple of weeks.

 

[saltn00b]

properly performed hypo is not drastic in any way. it even reportedly has a calming effect on them because it is less stressful. if you think the fish may have ick, or came from a LFS that has a single source of water with other ick-laden fish in the system, it is a safe thing to do to make sure you are not bringing ick into your display.
I do agree with what beth said as well. a single spot appearing on the fin sounds suspiciously like Lympho. if it is large , three dimensional and abnormally shaped, those are good descriptions of lympho.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
properly performed hypo is not drastic in any way. it even reportedly has a calming effect on them because it is less stressful. if you think the fish may have ick, or came from a LFS that has a single source of water with other ick-laden fish in the system, it is a safe thing to do to make sure you are not bringing ick into your display.
I do agree with what beth said as well. a single spot appearing on the fin sounds suspiciously like Lympho. if it is large , three dimensional and abnormally shaped, those are good descriptions of lympho.
well, this is small, looks flat and circular. I haven't seen ich in the tanks at the lfs. Even on the powder blues that they always have a few of.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
well, this is small, looks flat and circular. I haven't seen ich in the tanks at the lfs. Even on the powder blues that they always have a few of.
LFS's run copper in their water and the water runs from tank to tank. I would not assume that the fish there do not have ich. Have you looked closely with a magnifying glass? See if it looks like a grain of salt.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Beth
It may be the prelude to ich, in which case many more spots will appear shortly, or it may be lymphocyctis.
Take a look at the pictures of ich and lymphocyctis in the Diseased Fish Thread, and then the info on these diseases in the FAQ Thread. Both at the top of this forum.
the treatment for both is hypo correct?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
LFS's run copper in their water and the water runs from tank to tank. I would not assume that the fish there do not have ich. Have you looked closely with a magnifying glass? See if it looks like a grain of salt.
I've tried, but haven't been able to get a really good look.

 

[saltn00b]

hypo treats ick. lympho will clear up on its own once the fish is in a quality environment and not stressed. its is almost never fatal.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
hypo treats ick. lympho will clear up on its own once the fish is in a quality environment and not stressed. its is almost never fatal.
So if it is lympho, then it should clear up if I keep my qt in good shape. And if it is ich, it will spread?

 

[stdreb27]

I tried to get a good look at it today when I fed them, and still can't really tell. If I start a hypo to cover the ich will that irratate the other lympho?

 

[saltn00b]

basically if after 1-4 days you are seing the whole body covered in small salt-sized spots, its ick, if you are seeing big offshaped spots on the fins or mouth its lympho.
lympho doesnt cause a problem unless its in the mouth and gets massive and bulbous and the fish can no longer eat. hypo doesnt necessarily help lympho, but the fish can easily have both. you need to treat the ick if you have it, thats the priority. after the lympho usually will go away when placed in the DT with good space and water params.
post a pic if you can, it would really help.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
basically if after 1-4 days you are seing the whole body covered in small salt-sized spots, its ick, if you are seeing big offshaped spots on the fins or mouth its lympho.
lympho doesnt cause a problem unless its in the mouth and gets massive and bulbous and the fish can no longer eat. hypo doesnt necessarily help lympho, but the fish can easily have both. you need to treat the ick if you have it, thats the priority. after the lympho usually will go away when placed in the DT with good space and water params.
post a pic if you can, it would really help.
Pics aren't likely, I'm the only person in my family without a 5000 dollar camera, I have a fishtank. I'll try to borrow a camera from a friend, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
I don't see any more spots, just the one. It may have grown slightly. But it is still extreemly small, like .05 mm. The size of mechanical pencil lead. He was purchased saturday, so in water without copper it still hasn't spread. So I'm probably out of the woods as far as ich? The likelyhood of lympho seems more likely, he was packed in with several other fish, in a bare tank at the lfs.

 

[saltn00b]

i would keep him in QT for 6 weeks without hypo, just keeping an eye on him. feed quality enriched foods, soaked with the goodies etc.
if the status changes, then act accordingly.
the QT you have him in, does it have any calcerous materials? LS, LR?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
i would keep him in QT for 6 weeks without hypo, just keeping an eye on him. feed quality enriched foods, soaked with the goodies etc.
if the status changes, then act accordingly.
the QT you have him in, does it have any calcerous materials? LS, LR?
It has about 30 pounds of live rock in it. A powerhead, and a skimmer. No sand.

 

[stdreb27]

Can a fish be a carrier of Ich and not display symtoms?

 

[saltn00b]

yes , that is why you can have a fish for 4 weeks and not see anything until the last day. by keeping it with calcerous materials the life cycle can perpetuate itself. also, incase you have to perform hypo, you are going to basically make that LR turn into dead rock, causing a variety of problems. QTs are ideally sterile, and keeping calcerous things out of it, severely cuts down on the ability of ick to survive even in small, un detectable amounts.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
yes , that is why you can have a fish for 4 weeks and not see anything until the last day. by keeping it with calcerous materials the life cycle can perpetuate itself. also, incase you have to perform hypo, you are going to basically make that LR turn into dead rock, causing a variety of problems. QTs are ideally sterile, and keeping calcerous things out of it, severely cuts down on the ability of ick to survive even in small, un detectable amounts.
So Ich can survive in live rock without a host.
Assuming the dot on the tail is ich
If it goes away, but I have lr in the qt tank, then potentially it has the ability to return, since it can survive in the lr.
The next question is, without lr, if it goes away, then it is unlikely that it would survive. Since there is no calcerous in the tank.