What to put inside Sump and how to arrange filter media and equipment?

[marshallplacid]

Hello fellow hobbyists!
I appreciate any input, advice, comments, critiques, etc. on this topic. I really need some help on this.
What filter and equipment do I put inside my sump? And inside which chamber?
My objective is to reduce nitrates. Every other measurement (ammonia, nitrite, phosphate, etc. is good). BUT, my nitrates are through the room at 80ppm. Yes, I know water change will help. However, what about my sump's arrangement and filter media and equipment used?
here is a description of my sump and what filter media and equipment I currently have inside.
Sump description:
5 chamber sump. Each chamber is about 18'' x 8''.
Two drainage pipes from overflow and both drain about the same amount of water each.
One pipe drains to the 1st chamber on the far left. The second pipe drains to the 5th chamber on the far right.
Return pump returns water in the 3rd chamber (the middle chamber).
Reef tank:
8 weeks old (very new tank)
187 gallons with one overflow that has 2 pipes for drainage.
4 x 150W lights + 4 x 65W T5s + Moonlight LEDs + 3 x Koralia 1400 GPH powerheads
1 1/2 inch to 2 inch deep sandbed.
Only 70 lbs of live rock ( I don't want to add anymore. I prefer more room for corals and fish to swim)
About 10 fishes, with a combined length of 24 inches.
10 corals (mostly softies and 3 hard corals)
1 sea anemone bubble tip
2 cleaner shrimps, some snails, crabs, one slug
Sump Equipment:
Pump: Eheim 1260 (measured at about 500GPH returning to my tank)
Equipment: 2 Tunze 9006 classic skimmers
UV Sterlizer Coralife Turbo twist 18x (with a small pump)
Nextreef SMR1 reactor with vertex bio pellets (with a small pump)
Sump Filter media:
4L of Seachem matrix (I don't have mesh bags for them. I just threw them into the sump chambers without mesh bags. The matrix simply sinks to near the bottom of the sump chambers where there are filter wool above filter grids). I just put in the matrix about 2 weeks ago. Maybe, the nitrifying bacteria isn't cultured enough yet.
8 bags of Seachem purigen - I heard this type of media does not remove nitrate. It removes organics and other things that create nitrate.
2 large slabs Filter wool that fits the 1st chamber and 5th chamber perfectly
2 nylon filter socks
6 bags of Bio-Chem Zorb
2 bags of activated carbon (4'' x 6'')
750ml I think... of vertex bio pellets in the nextreef reactor
What filter and equipment do I put inside my sump aside from what I already have? And inside which chamber? So, how do I arrange all these filter media and equipment so I achieve the best possible water returning to my tank?
Do I wait a little longer for bacteria to get cultured in the seachem matrix? Or, get more seachem matrix? Or get chaeto? Or, create a refugium to grow chaeto?
I thank you all for your time in responding. It is much appreciated!

 

[al&burke]

A picture would be great, as far as putting media loose in your sump is not a good idea, it will eventually get everywhere and will be difficult to remove. Also at 500 GPH that is only about a 2.5 turn over, a little bit low. Welcome to the site. Get some pictures out and we can help you out. The chamber on the right could be made into a refuge with macro algae. Very young tank for an anemone. Sounds like a nice set up just need to get your sump in the right order.

 

[teresaq]

one thing to remember with live rock, you need places for your fish to hide and feel safe. You have a very lrg tank with a lot of fish. thats a lot of bioload. rock houses bacteria to help eliminate ammonia. You will also need places to attach corals. They need room to spread out. fish swim in and out of rock work as well as open water.

 

[saxman]

How often do you rinse your media, change your filter sox, floss, etc.?
All that filter media can actually turn into NO3 factories because they can only process the NH3 down to NO3.
You'll need some type of anaerobic bacterial activity and WC's to get the NO3 down. I'd add a bunch of cycled LR to your sump in place of some of that "bio-media" you're running. You could also add some live macro algae as well, which will feed on HN3 first, but will also feed on NO3.
If you feed your tank frozen food, be sure to rinse it in a net under the tap before feeding it out. The "juice" is a huge source of nitrogenous waste.
HTH

 

[snakeblitz33]

Sounds like your on the right track. Keep replacing your filter media as often as possible, including the pads and socks. Replace your carbon every 30 days and don't skimp. Do not let your chemical filtration media loose in the tank. What kind of top off water are you using? How often and how much of a water change are you doing? Are you able to employ any other type of filtration such as an algae scrubber?

 

[marshallplacid]

Thank you Al&Burke, Teresa, Saxman, and Snake.
I did not know that the frozen food is a huge source. I'll try to get a replacement food for the frozen brine shrimps.
I have a second set of socks that I replace every 2 days and wash the dirty ones in the laundry.
Snake: I was using tap water until the last few days. I measured the nitrate levels in the tap water and they read almost 0. So, would using tap water raise nitrate levels in the tank even when I already measured the tap water as being near 0 nitrates?
I started using filtered water since 3 days ago.
I just bought some mesh bags and will put the matrix into teh bags so they don't go everywhere.
For the algae scrubber thing, I was thinking of attaching a refugium beside my sump and grow chaeto. Woul dthat quality as an algae scrubber?
I have one more question guys.
The refugium will be a little taller than the sump's top.
I know how to bring water into the refugium via a water pump. That is the easy part.
But, how do I drain water from the refugium back into the sump?
Do I need an expensive overflow?
Or can I simply cut a hole into the refugium (about 5 inches from the top fo the refugium tank) and put a tube into that hole and put the other end of the tube to the sump and let gravity do its work? If I do this, would it drain the water from the refugium too quickly?
My refugium will be basically a plstic container (hopefully a clear or transparent one).
Thanks a bunch!

 

[al&burke]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallPlacid http:///t/387535/what-to-put-inside-sump-and-how-to-arrange-filter-media-and-equipment#post_3410750
Thank you Al&Burke, Teresa, Saxman, and Snake.
I did not know that the frozen food is a huge source. I'll try to get a replacement food for the frozen brine shrimps.
I have a second set of socks that I replace every 2 days and wash the dirty ones in the laundry.
Snake: I was using tap water until the last few days. I measured the nitrate levels in the tap water and they read almost 0. So, would using tap water raise nitrate levels in the tank even when I already measured the tap water as being near 0 nitrates?
I started using filtered water since 3 days ago.
I just bought some mesh bags and will put the matrix into teh bags so they don't go everywhere.
For the algae scrubber thing, I was thinking of attaching a refugium beside my sump and grow chaeto. Woul dthat quality as an algae scrubber?
I have one more question guys.
The refugium will be a little taller than the sump's top.
I know how to bring water into the refugium via a water pump. That is the easy part.
But, how do I drain water from the refugium back into the sump?
Do I need an expensive overflow?
Or can I simply cut a hole into the refugium (about 5 inches from the top fo the refugium tank) and put a tube into that hole and put the other end of the tube to the sump and let gravity do its work? If I do this, would it drain the water from the refugium too quickly?
My refugium will be basically a plstic container (hopefully a clear or transparent one).
Thanks a bunch!
There are two types of algae scrubbers,
1) refugium - sounds like you can use the compartment farthest to the right on your sump - we still need some pictures
2) algae scrubber - AKA the Algae turf Scrubber - this is a whole differnt thing and there are lots of threads on this one.
I would first go with the fuge - get some cheato algae and some lights and try it in your sump (last compartment on the right) but lets see some pictures before you put it in just to make sure it will work.
I have both in my system and I think they work great.
Oh yah - I forgot get some frozen mysis shrimp much better for your fish than brine shrimp

 

[snakeblitz33]

Have you ran a TDS test on your tap water? Most residential areas have a TDS reading in the thousands to many hundreds. I would still filter the tap water through a carbon block and a DI cartridge if I were to use that water. Then at least some chemical contaminates and most phosphate will be taken out of the water.
No, a macroalgae refugium is not the same at an algae scrubber. Scrubbers use high flow rates and a lit screen to grow hair algae to remove nitrate and phosphate in the water while leaving Particulate Organic Matter for corals to eat. You can read more on it by doing a simple search. Macro is still a good choice, but it's not as efficient as an algae scrubber. An algae scrubber is also a simple DIY project, but if you're not good at DIY, avoid it.
A plastic container with a bulkhead is absolutely acceptable for a refugium. Just make sure that the plastic container is of food grade non-toxic plastic. You don't want anti-mold and mildew chemicals leaching into your tank.

 

[marshallplacid]

Thanks guys! I'll switch to mysis.
And, the non-toxic plastic is a good idea. I almost forgot about it.
In regards to a bulkhead, how do I actually install it into the refugium without it leaking water?
Is it as simple as drilling a hole, enlarging it, and sticking the tube into the hole, and then sealing it with cement/sealant? to fill in any holes between the tube and the plastic?

 

[al&burke]

Pictures

 

[acrylic51]

I'd start slow making any changes, that way you can track exactly where the problem lies......I'd suspect the frozen food not rinsed would be a good source as suggested.....As far as adding more LR, I'm like you and prefer a little less than most, and really there isn't a dead set rule as how much you have to use. Comes down to a personal preference to a degree. I would suggest as well as not using tap water as well. If you feed heavily, and leaving the pumps run during feeding you have to remember that the food sucked into the filter sock is sitting there with water constantly decaying. As that food is decaying regardless how well your filtration system is working; water running through decay will drive nitrates as well. You might opt to change socks out daily as well.